What if you you ran out of money before that happen. Don't tell me it's not going to happen. Everyone has had one of those days. Your ass roasted and toasted served up to you by your casino. People only carry so much money on them. The bankroll is only endless when playing on a simulator. This is real life.
Quitting when Behind?
- Thread starter bluewhale
- Start date
What if you you ran out of money before that happen. Don't tell me it's not going to happen. Everyone has had one of those days. Your ass roasted and toasted served up to you by your casino. People only carry so much money on them. The bankroll is only endless when playing on a simulator. This is real life.
Well, I'd rather just play at the one casino, of course, it would reduce "shoe leather" costs and and free up all kinds of time in my schedule. And next month, I'd have even more time, because that casino probably wouldn't let me back in!
This topic also brings up speculation on what would get more of a reputation as a loser, frequent small losses, or the occasional epic loss.
This topic also brings up speculation on what would get more of a reputation as a loser, frequent small losses, or the occasional epic loss.
Kill 10 minutes and save years in the casino
The backoff or barring that comes during a losing marathon session in a casino that offers good games, is a much greater loss than any shoe leather or the time it takes to walk to the next casino in areas like Vegas. I have seen enough people on websites complain about getting backed off while losing and then after being questions you find out they stayed long and dropped any sort of cover, increased spread and all in trying to get back what they dropped so far. Now I have a (modest opinion goes here) great steamer act but this stuff only works for so long and someone will figure out that you never steam off the top and then figure out that you only steam in positive counts, take your bathroom breaks on negative counts and they will not card, they will shoe you the door. Of course this is not always, it is just the better the game and the longer you stay, the better the chance of it happening.
As far as the huge dump goes in one place, it saves on toilet paper also:laugh:
ihate17
The backoff or barring that comes during a losing marathon session in a casino that offers good games, is a much greater loss than any shoe leather or the time it takes to walk to the next casino in areas like Vegas. I have seen enough people on websites complain about getting backed off while losing and then after being questions you find out they stayed long and dropped any sort of cover, increased spread and all in trying to get back what they dropped so far. Now I have a (modest opinion goes here) great steamer act but this stuff only works for so long and someone will figure out that you never steam off the top and then figure out that you only steam in positive counts, take your bathroom breaks on negative counts and they will not card, they will shoe you the door. Of course this is not always, it is just the better the game and the longer you stay, the better the chance of it happening.
As far as the huge dump goes in one place, it saves on toilet paper also:laugh:
ihate17
no i meant "negative". if you are down money then you can leave banking a loss at the casino.
clearly we are all playing +EV games.
so can i get someone of the guys to weigh in on the article by johnny c? i thought it was really good. are we agreeing that the info there is still relevant today and very useful?
clearly we are all playing +EV games.
so can i get someone of the guys to weigh in on the article by johnny c? i thought it was really good. are we agreeing that the info there is still relevant today and very useful?
i know you meant negative, i was just clarifying the semantics for others whiel making a joke... forget about it.
as for the article by john c? i didnt see a link you posted to that one. but for the one you linked to by anderson, i think there is merit to what he says, depending on the situation of course.
if youre playing a heat-free environment and have the bankroll to keep playing past one hour even when youre down, why not keep playing and get more time/hands in? the more the merrier.
on the other hand, most good places these days are not heat-free and so yes, the comments ian makes are worthwhile to listen to if you are playing at a significant level (i would qualify that as $25 min and up since your max bets will start reaching 200+). if down, quit after an hour or so, advertise your loss to the pit, get a comp, stop yourself from exposing your +EV play to the eye in the sky. sounds good to me. ESPECIALLY if im in a casino town where i can walk next door and keep on playing in front of a new set of eyes. others might disagree, but ive always been a fan of what anderson preaches.
as for the article by john c? i didnt see a link you posted to that one. but for the one you linked to by anderson, i think there is merit to what he says, depending on the situation of course.
if youre playing a heat-free environment and have the bankroll to keep playing past one hour even when youre down, why not keep playing and get more time/hands in? the more the merrier.
on the other hand, most good places these days are not heat-free and so yes, the comments ian makes are worthwhile to listen to if you are playing at a significant level (i would qualify that as $25 min and up since your max bets will start reaching 200+). if down, quit after an hour or so, advertise your loss to the pit, get a comp, stop yourself from exposing your +EV play to the eye in the sky. sounds good to me. ESPECIALLY if im in a casino town where i can walk next door and keep on playing in front of a new set of eyes. others might disagree, but ive always been a fan of what anderson preaches.
In almost any gaming venture I believe it advantageous to quit when you get behind by a certain amount. The amount is determined by the game you're playing, the stakes you're playing at, and how much you let money affect you. In most games you're playing an opponent. Let me be more precise, an emotional human opponent, not like blackjack where the opponent is the House and can't get rattled and misplay hands.
You're the only one who can make mistakes if you're an AP player and if you're losing significantly I'd suggest calling it quits til another day. Maybe your count is off? Maybe you start spreading your bets more trying to win it back? Maybe you aren't thinking clearly because of the smoking brunette sitting at third base. Whatever the reason, the blackjack tables aren't going anywhere, go get some food, grab a show, watch some porn, donk off your money playing low stakes poker to make yourself feel better. Whatever it is, figure out your loss threshold and stick to it.
Checkmugged
You're the only one who can make mistakes if you're an AP player and if you're losing significantly I'd suggest calling it quits til another day. Maybe your count is off? Maybe you start spreading your bets more trying to win it back? Maybe you aren't thinking clearly because of the smoking brunette sitting at third base. Whatever the reason, the blackjack tables aren't going anywhere, go get some food, grab a show, watch some porn, donk off your money playing low stakes poker to make yourself feel better. Whatever it is, figure out your loss threshold and stick to it.
Checkmugged
You know what, I'm not that concerned with gaining comps, and I care very little about winning or losing streaks. I care about playing a good game, win or lose, comps or not. thats it. We set time limited sessions and barring any unusual circumstances play for the designated time and thats it. Nothing fancy, or personal. If we are losing when its time to stop who cares, if we're winning, great, but its no big deal. We set goals and we meet them, thats all we worry about. The comps come, but I'm more concerned about the money. As long as we play our methods correctly, and our game as optimal as practically possible, then we don't worry about heat or losing. We are usually gone before heat is a factor, and losing is an expected occurance in short term situations. Again, we set goals that need to be met. Playing smart is the only way that can happen, but in our case it does not include trying to leave on losses, it means leaving when you're supposed to with no emotional attachment to either wins, losses, or comps.
I guess anything is possible, but the chances of such a thing happening is quite unlikely. It doesn't take an endless bankroll to navigate through bad variance. It takes understanding of risk and money management. As long as your game is solid as well as your game plan, then its more likely you'll weather the storm than go down in it. I'm sure it happens to some, but its far from the norm. You know who it happens to, the people who ask, "I have a bankroll of $2000 and a unit of $25 spreading 1-12 how much can I make"? Those, and those similar to that will experience the need for total replenishing or total failure.
As a team we have played many more than 1,000,000 hands. Very rare is the time we even tap out a trip bankroll let alone the whole thing. Don't get me wrong we lose, we all do, but thats supposed to be part of the equation. If you tap out your whole bankroll odds are you didn't figure your game correctly and miscalculated the money management aspect of it, or you are the exeption and not the rule. It simply comes down to the risk you want to afford. We don't take large risks, but others might. We have never tapped out the bankroll, but others might.
As a team we have played many more than 1,000,000 hands. Very rare is the time we even tap out a trip bankroll let alone the whole thing. Don't get me wrong we lose, we all do, but thats supposed to be part of the equation. If you tap out your whole bankroll odds are you didn't figure your game correctly and miscalculated the money management aspect of it, or you are the exeption and not the rule. It simply comes down to the risk you want to afford. We don't take large risks, but others might. We have never tapped out the bankroll, but others might.
when that happens they usually hand me my a$$ on a silver platter lol.
the most i ever played trying to over come a slump was just recently. played to 21 straight hours, no sleep, hardly a break, no food. i think i had two cups of coffee (sure was good). darned near came out of the slump but in the end i got the silver platter with my you know what on it.
but i think ZenG's right on the idea of the efficiency being that the thing is the more hands you get in (asumming your playing correctly) the more EV you rack up. thing is like you say is your bankroll gonna last. thing is for me i think it's really easier on me pschologically to just play maybe a few hours or so and then haul it in win or lose. like in my case i think there are probably subtle psychological influences that creep into my game the longer i play... actions that aren't influenced by the count sort of thing. i've been trying to remmember and if memory serves me correct i don't think i've ever played a marathon like session that turned out very profitable.
the most i ever played trying to over come a slump was just recently. played to 21 straight hours, no sleep, hardly a break, no food. i think i had two cups of coffee (sure was good). darned near came out of the slump but in the end i got the silver platter with my you know what on it.
but i think ZenG's right on the idea of the efficiency being that the thing is the more hands you get in (asumming your playing correctly) the more EV you rack up. thing is like you say is your bankroll gonna last. thing is for me i think it's really easier on me pschologically to just play maybe a few hours or so and then haul it in win or lose. like in my case i think there are probably subtle psychological influences that creep into my game the longer i play... actions that aren't influenced by the count sort of thing. i've been trying to remmember and if memory serves me correct i don't think i've ever played a marathon like session that turned out very profitable.
I have play plenty of marathation sessions 24 hours or longer with the longest one being 31 hours straight. For that session I made $4500 playing a $50 Min table but thats rare. I found out for me alone shorter session are better. It seems like I always can start finish but don't know when to walk away. The longer I stay it becomes to much fun and no more business. Maybe it's from my attuide of day trading stocks.
I don't think its a bad idea, its just not one I'm terribly concerned with. The nature of the game will take care of the losses for you. There will be plenty of times you will leave on a loss if you play to a set time limit instead of sticking around trying to win your money back. With sessions no longer than 2 hours and sometimes as short as 45 minutes, we don't feel the need to stick around to change someones opinion on our play. More times than not we aren't there long enough to raise a suspicion to let someone even get an opinion on us. As far as a BP goes, if done right you can be known as a loser even if you're winning. Since the BP doesn't hang around too long its not always a given that he shows a players card even if he is playing big. If you take a big loss though its not that hard to get the pit to give you credit for your play before you leave the table. If you win, most times the BP won't be there long enough to worry about a rating. This scenario needs to be judged by the BP on how the pit is handling his action. As long as you can play naturally, with reasonable reasons for your actions, there is no reason you can't play in this manner more than 50% of the time. Couple that with the actual real losses that will occur during the other times playing, and without having to cut sessions short or playing too long, you have turned winning into losing, at least thats what the pit records will show.
As far as Bally's and Ceasers in A.C., I don't play those places. The ones I do play I play up to 2 hour sessions. Sometimes shorter, usually no longer. There are exceptions where the playing will be longer in one place, but that will only be places with multiple pits not in sight of each other. In a case like that, each pit may get 30 to 45 minutes of play, but depending on the amount of pits the overall session may last a bit longer than 2 hours. This also pertains to any other place we play, not just A.C.
As far as Bally's and Ceasers in A.C., I don't play those places. The ones I do play I play up to 2 hour sessions. Sometimes shorter, usually no longer. There are exceptions where the playing will be longer in one place, but that will only be places with multiple pits not in sight of each other. In a case like that, each pit may get 30 to 45 minutes of play, but depending on the amount of pits the overall session may last a bit longer than 2 hours. This also pertains to any other place we play, not just A.C.
Yeah...and..
Whats your point? Yes the money will come if doing your thing means playing a smart, good game. The what ifs don't mean anything to me. What if I have a big loss? So what, thats built into my money management system and I have sized my unit in relation to my bankroll and not only can I withstand the loss, I expect them. What if the losses are bigger than expected for a longer period of time? So what, then its time to evaluate my play and to change my unit size if the cut into my bankroll is too great. What if there is heat at a casino and I can't play there anymore? So what, play somewhere else. It is about the money, so I would never limit myself to the places I play. Staying fresh to the casinos, especially with higher stakes requires movement. If you don't want to do that I suggest not going to your local casino every week, and playing lower stakes that won't put you too readily on the radar.
The what ifs can go both ways and their can be positive ones too. If you really do play with an advantage, you will see them too, and good luck may seemingly become more abundant. There will always be negative variance, and bad luck, so what, thats the game. If you run out of money, odds are you either did something very wrong, or played risk be damned. Either way thats not for me, and the what ifs are already accounted for.
Whats your point? Yes the money will come if doing your thing means playing a smart, good game. The what ifs don't mean anything to me. What if I have a big loss? So what, thats built into my money management system and I have sized my unit in relation to my bankroll and not only can I withstand the loss, I expect them. What if the losses are bigger than expected for a longer period of time? So what, then its time to evaluate my play and to change my unit size if the cut into my bankroll is too great. What if there is heat at a casino and I can't play there anymore? So what, play somewhere else. It is about the money, so I would never limit myself to the places I play. Staying fresh to the casinos, especially with higher stakes requires movement. If you don't want to do that I suggest not going to your local casino every week, and playing lower stakes that won't put you too readily on the radar.
The what ifs can go both ways and their can be positive ones too. If you really do play with an advantage, you will see them too, and good luck may seemingly become more abundant. There will always be negative variance, and bad luck, so what, thats the game. If you run out of money, odds are you either did something very wrong, or played risk be damned. Either way thats not for me, and the what ifs are already accounted for.