re-double (triplete)

3

3furia

New Member
Good morning to everyone and sorry for my poor english.

In Praga I found a casino with this roules:

6D, ENHC, S17, DAS, Early Surrender WITH ANY NUMBER OF CARDS (but not versus A), REDOUBLE (triplete)

redouble (triplete) means that you can double for the initial bet a second time
example:
initial bet $100
you double 9 vs 6 so another $100 in the game
you get dealt a 2, you can double again betting $100 and you get dealt one more card.
total bet is now $ 300: you bet at the end 3 times the original bet (triplete).

I would like to know about the EV (i think it is positive for the player) and the right BS.

I know that in the past this question was already discussed but I don't found any BS o EV.

Thanks to everyone

Domenic
 
gronbog

gronbog

Well-Known Member
Be careful when using existing redoubling research for Spanish 21. In Spanish 21, you can usually redouble twice for the full amount. i.e. bet 100, double for 100, redouble for 200, redouble for 400 (total bet is 800). According to the OP, you can only redouble once here and only for the amount of the original bet. The strategy and EV for SP21 will also differ because the 10s have been removed. One final point. When your choice is restricted to redoubling or standing, it is often correct to redouble for as little as possible. You will very likely need to write/find some custom software in order to analyze this properly.
 
L

London Colin

Well-Known Member
gronbog said:
You will very likely need to write/find some custom software in order to analyze this properly
Click to expand...
It sounds very much like the game which we already analysed- https://www.blackjackinfo.com/community/threads/special-bj-rule-re-doubling-tripling.54940/#post-491412

Except the OP says-
3furia said:
Early Surrender WITH ANY NUMBER OF CARDS
Click to expand...
That's not something that was mentioned previously. I don't know how much extra that would be worth, but instinctively it sounds like it would be quite a lot.
 
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D

Dummy

Well-Known Member
Early surrender on any number of cards almost has to be a no hole card game. that was not mentioned or at least I didn't notice it. When I saw ES10 I thought it was a likely possibility but it was not mentioned.
 
D

DSchles

Well-Known Member
Dummy said:
Early surrender on any number of cards almost has to be a no hole card game. that was not mentioned or at least I didn't notice it. When I saw ES10 I thought it was a likely possibility but it was not mentioned.
Click to expand...
ENHC in the original post.

Don
 
3

3furia

New Member
Thanks to everyone.
DSchles are you Donald "Don" Schlesinger ? You are my myth, thanks for wrote BJA3!

Talking about my problem, CVdata is ok to compute the multy card surrender (about -0,130%), but i don't found any way to compute triplete
I asked to the Italian guru, Mr Vallesurda (I'm italian as well, sorry again for my bad english) but like everytime he is not collaborative: he just told me that with that rules it is around +0.3% (positive for the player) and that I have to do very silly actions like double hard 5 (vs 5 or 6) and redouble (after a double) 13 vs 7 (??????), but he don't tell me nothing more. To my eyes there are suicide actions but if he said this I think that it is true.

How I can find a complete BS and HA?

Thanks again
 
D

DSchles

Well-Known Member
"DSchles are you Donald "Don" Schlesinger ?"

Yes, I am.

"You are my myth, thanks for wrote BJA3!"

You're very welcome. Glad you are enjoying the book.

"Talking about my problem, CVdata is ok to compute the multy card surrender (about -0,130%), but i don't found any way to compute triplete
I asked to the Italian guru, Mr Vallesurda (I'm italian as well, sorry again for my bad english) but like everytime he is not collaborative: he just told me that with that rules it is around +0.3% (positive for the player) and that I have to do very silly actions like double hard 5 (vs 5 or 6) and redouble (after a double) 13 vs 7 (??????), but he don't tell me nothing more. To my eyes there are suicide actions but if he said this I think that it is true."

Those strategies are wrong. Again, uinderstand the differences between your rule and those of, say, Spanish 21, which permit much greater wagers for redoubling and perhaps even redoubling again.

"How I can find a complete BS and HA?"

Stanford Wong's Basic Blackjack addresses both redoubling and ES for any number of cards. I assume you don't have it. But his definition of redoubling probably means the final bet is four times the original, whereas in your version, it is only three times. Obviously, that may change some of the BS deviations as well as the final value of the HA. For what it's worth, Wong gives 0.4% if NDAS and 0.6% if DAS is permitted. Again, your edge is less because of the smaller redoubled wager (three times, not four).

As for ES for any number of cards, it isn't worth a great deal, especially when limited to just the 10. Wong gives 0.2% for both the ten and Ace, so, for just the 10, I'm guessing it may be worth a bit less than 0.1%.

Wong offers the BS for both rules in his tables, but, yet again, they don't perfectly match the rules you're quoting, so you may have to wait for someone to do a simulation for you.

"Thanks again."

You're welcome. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Don
 
L

London Colin

Well-Known Member
DSchles said:
Those strategies are wrong.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned above, Gronbog and I analysed this game (minus the multi-card surrender) in response to a previous query. We independently arrived at the same strategy by different means (simulation and combinatorial analysis).

"Double hard 5 (vs 5 or 6) and redouble (after a double) 13 vs 7" are both in the basic strategy we produced.

The overall player advantage was found to be +0.19% (remembering that this did not include multi-card surrender)

We didn't go into details on the open forum; there was a private-message conversation involving a few people, including Henkel, who was the person looking to play in the casino.

If no one objects, I'll try to add 3furia into that conversation., so (s)he can view all that was said.
 
R

revelation0928

Member
London Colin said:
As I mentioned above, Gronbog and I analysed this game (minus the multi-card surrender) in response to a previous query. We independently arrived at the same strategy by different means (simulation and combinatorial analysis).

"Double hard 5 (vs 5 or 6) and redouble (after a double) 13 vs 7" are both in the basic strategy we produced.

The overall player advantage was found to be +0.19% (remembering that this did not include multi-card surrender)

We didn't go into details on the open forum; there was a private-message conversation involving a few people, including Henkel, who was the person looking to play in the casino.

If no one objects, I'll try to add 3furia into that conversation., so (s)he can view all that was said.
Click to expand...
Hello recently I found a blackjack redoubling(1+1+1=3) game:6 decks,DA2,DAS(also redoube alowed after split),SA1 and Ace only gets 1 card after split,RS to 4 hands except ACE,ENHC,Full early surrender,shuffle machine with about 0.5 decks muck penetration.I think the player gets an advantage about +0.5% EV off the top.
Do you or gronbog sell the Basic strategy of redoubling?
Or can I join the conversation?
I'm also glad to share this casino information with you guys.
Thanks.
 
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gronbog

gronbog

Well-Known Member
As Colin said in the post you quoted, we analyzed a similar game years ago. The only difference appears to be that your game has full ES where the game we looked at was ES10. You would use the same basic strategy for this game, except you would use the proper ES ENHC strategy vs a dealer ace. I will try to find it in my archives and I will regenerate it if I can't find it.
 
R

revelation0928

Member
gronbog said:
As Colin said in the post you quoted, we analyzed a similar game years ago. The only difference appears to be that your game has full ES where the game we looked at was ES10. You would use the same basic strategy for this game, except you would use the proper ES ENHC strategy vs a dealer ace. I will try to find it in my archives and I will regenerate it if I can't find it.
Click to expand...
Thanks very much.
 
R

revelation0928

Member
gronbog said:
As Colin said in the post you quoted, we analyzed a similar game years ago. The only difference appears to be that your game has full ES where the game we looked at was ES10. You would use the same basic strategy for this game, except you would use the proper ES ENHC strategy vs a dealer ace. I will try to find it in my archives and I will regenerate it if I can't find it.
Click to expand...
Hello can you see the Conversation window I start?
The system shows error when I start the conversation but the Conversation window shows after error.
So I don't know if the Conversation window works properly.
If you can't connect me in the Conversation window,please use my email: [email protected]
Thanks.
 
gronbog

gronbog

Well-Known Member
I saw the conversation, but since the questions were the same as you asked here and the information could be of interested to many, I decided to answer here.

I'll be posting some strategies soon. Possibly tomorrow.
 
R

revelation0928

Member
gronbog said:
I saw the conversation, but since the questions were the same as you asked here and the information could be of interested to many, I decided to answer here.

I'll be posting some strategies soon. Possibly tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Thanks very much.
 
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W

wessnipes

Member
London Colin said:
As I mentioned above, Gronbog and I analysed this game (minus the multi-card surrender) in response to a previous query. We independently arrived at the same strategy by different means (simulation and combinatorial analysis).

"Double hard 5 (vs 5 or 6) and redouble (after a double) 13 vs 7" are both in the basic strategy we produced.

The overall player advantage was found to be +0.19% (remembering that this did not include multi-card surrender)

We didn't go into details on the open forum; there was a private-message conversation involving a few people, including Henkel, who was the person looking to play in the casino.

If no one objects, I'll try to add 3furia into that conversation., so (s)he can view all that was said.
Click to expand...
Hi Colin, I would also like to be added into that conversation if possible as I have found a game matching these conditions also, ES10 but with other perks. I have sent a PM but I got error messages mentioned by Revelation. Many thanks
 
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