# SD and DD games - typcial pen levels

Discussion in 'Skilled Play - Card Counting, Advanced Strategies' started by matt21, Mar 30, 2009.

1. ### matt21Well-Known Member

i have never had the chance to play SD or DD. I am looking to complete some probability modelling with CVD and need to input the pen levels.

Would anyone be happy to comment on typical pen levels for SD and DD games?
do the pen levels tend to vary with the table minimums?

For DD, I'd say the average is about 50%, which is bad. About the best you'll find is 75%. a few games give 55-65%.

3. ### MimosineWell-Known Member

50% is what i encounter 50% of the time. 60% is findable let's say 30% of the time, and 70% is about the upper limit you can expect to find maybe 20%.

this is for CA and NV DD games that i've played over the past 1 year.

Most likely if you find a house cutting 50% everyone in house will cut that. when the pen can vary, it usually will!

4. ### matt21Well-Known Member

thanks for these very quick responses. so for the purposes of modelling i could use pen level at 5% increments say 50, 55, 60, 65, 70 and 75.

i had thought that the SD/DD pen levels are likley to vary significantly from

thanks again.

5. ### moo321Well-Known Member

I've seen double deck as shallow as 40%, and a little over 80%. In the Midwest, 50-55% is typical. Other places, you get into the sixties pretty commonly.

Single deck is usually dealt by "rule". Rule of five is most common, while rule of six is usually good. I've never seen rule of seven, but I have seen dealer who dealt rule of seven with certain combinations of players.

6. ### jack.jacksonWell-Known Member

Do you think it would make sense, to start playing 2 hands, (play-all) when pen is 50% or less, to try an compensate? For example, if your +EV is about 1 unit, w/50% pen, for 1 hand only(1-5) wouldnt it be feasible to try and implement two-hands, for a +EV of 2units?

This way, you can always control 2 hands and perhaps get away with a bigger spread, opposed to when speading to 2 hands. Also, if double table min is required, you can just revert to the lowest min table. For example you could play 25x25 w/a 1-5 spread(125x125) on a \$10 min table, provided you had the BR of course.

Seems to me this method could also be a good alternative to wonging.

7. ### Blue EfficacyWell-Known Member

80% can be found if you know where to look. :cool2:

8. ### matt21Well-Known Member

thanks for your comment. presumably you are referring to DD, right?

9. ### luciferWell-Known Member

palms used to have incredible pen a few years ago, and then dumped the game. they recently brought it back and its now 50%. that sucks pretty bad.on the flip side there are alot more dd games in vegas now, but the pen is definitely worse than a few years ago.

10. ### MimosineWell-Known Member

i'm not quite good enough to say one way or another without simming it. It's a tough call. sometimes it is better to play one hand if it means you'll get an additional round in a high count, sometimes if you know the last round is coming it's good to put out two bets. i think simming is the only way to know.

11. ### moo321Well-Known Member

If there are other players at the table, AND you can get away with it, two hands is usually better. Heads up, one hand is best.

12. ### GermanMember

The Palms game depends on the dealer, you can still find over 50% there