Separate Ace Count

[golfer1872]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to card counting and I have memorized the basic strategy for multiple deck and the strategy based on true count. I was just wondering how everyone out there if they do the Hi-Opt I count, how they count they're aces separately or if it is even worth it. I was thinking about foot placements. I usually play 6-8 decks. Any suggestions?

 

[rukus]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to card counting and I have memorized the basic strategy for multiple deck and the strategy based on true count. I was just wondering how everyone out there if they do the Hi-Opt I count, how they count they're aces separately or if it is even worth it. I was thinking about foot placements. I usually play 6-8 decks. Any suggestions?

dont bother with an ace side count in shoe games. when i played a lot of pitch, i used to use letters when i used AOII. so if i saw two aces come out and the running count was say +5, id be repeating "5b" in my head. if three aces had come out id be thinking "5c".

with some practice your brain correlates what letter corresponds to what part of the deck/shoe and you get to be able to automatically subtract letters from each other. so if i had "5c" and it should have been "5d" by that part of the deck, i knew there was one excess ace in the deck and adjusted my bet accordingly.

that said, if you play mostly shoes but still like to play pitch sometimes, i would recommend picking a level two count like zen so you can take advantage of both decent playing efficiency and betting correlation. the effort to use a level 2 count should be much much less than counting aces in a shoe game. thats just my opinion.

 

[Xenophon]

I have read many different methods for keeping a side count for aces, but if you are playing mostly multiple deck (like i did when I when I started playing in MN ), it is strongly recommended to use an ace reckoned count like high-low.

When you use high-low, you do not have to adjust the true count according to the ace side count for betting purposes.

Other methods I have read for keeping a separate count for aces include chip placement, and rotating ring on finger.

 

[Xenophon]

dont bother with an ace side count in shoe games. when i played a lot of pitch, i used to use letters when i used AOII. so if i saw two aces come out and the running count was say +5, id be repeating "5b" in my head. if three aces had come out id be thinking "5c".

I think what rukus means is don't bother with using a count that is not ace reckoned.. If you DO choose to use Hi-Opt 1 and NOT side count the aces, it is far weaker than hi-low for multi-deck games.

In other words, don't bother using a count that you also need to keep a separate count of aces when playing mostly multiple decks. Or as rukus mentioned, it is easier to use a level 2 ace reckoned count than a level 1 non-ace reckoned count.

Two ace reckoned counts i recommend are the Revere Point Count or ZEN. http://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

 

[zengrifter]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to card counting and I have memorized the basic strategy for multiple deck and the strategy based on true count. I was just wondering how everyone out there if they do the Hi-Opt I count, how they count they're aces separately or if it is even worth it. I was thinking about foot placements. I usually play 6-8 decks. Any suggestions?

Its not worth the effort (HiOpt-1) - forget Ace-count and go with HiLO zg

 

[golfer1872]

thanks for the tips. I've looked over the recommended counts and I think I am going to tackle the zen count.

 

[Xenophon]

thanks for the tips. I've looked over the recommended counts and I think I am going to tackle the zen count.

Good choice.. The zen count is probably the best all around count. When I was simulating games and comparing counts with CVCX, Zen was very strong with any number of decks. You can use it with confidence in MN 2-6 decks, Reno single deck.. etc.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm


Make sure to look into the Illustrious 18. You capture most of the advantage from departing from basic strategy with only 18 of the index plays. Another thing to keep in mind is that the majority of your advantage comes from your bet spread, especially in multi deck games, not from deviating from basic strategy when the count dictates.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm

 

[matt21]

could i ask some clarification?

is it right then if using Hi-Low it is not worth keeping a seperate count of the aces, since the aces are already incorporated into the count via the '-1' value designation?

thanks in advance!

matt

 

[iCountNTrack]

could i ask some clarification?

is it right then if using Hi-Low it is not worth keeping a seperate count of the aces, since the aces are already incorporated into the count via the '-1' value designation?

thanks in advance!

matt

The only reason that you would side-count aces with Hi-Low is to increase your playing efficiency if you are planning to use play pitch games. For shoe games it is tedious and almost useless.

 

[matt21]

The only reason that you would side-count aces with Hi-Low is to increase your playing efficiency if you are planning to use play pitch games. For shoe games it is tedious and almost useless.

thanks for your reply on this one! ok makes sense.

 

[HockeXpert]

Ace sc with hi-lo also useful for insurance decisions...

but not worth the effort with 4+ deck games. Stick with hi-lo or zen.

 

[MoneyPlays]

Welcome golfer

...how they count they're aces separately or if it is even worth it. I was thinking about foot placements. I usually play 6-8 decks. Any suggestions?

Um, you're going to need more feet.

I use hi-lo but I would side count aces in 1 or 2 deck just for more information. If the count is neutral or slightly positive, I might bet a little more than normal if I know there's an extra ace or two out there. Shoe games, I would not even attempt it, for me anyway.

But if you can get the Zen count down you'll be in good shape for the game you're playing.

 

[Cherry7Up]

Um, you're going to need more feet.

Someone--I think it was Flash--posted recently about a foot method for counting aces in multiple decks.

Each foot has four possible positions (forward, to the right, back, to the left) plus some neutral (0) position (flat/center).

Foot 1 counts units of 1 ace up to 4 (i.e. 1 aces, 2 aces, 3 aces, 4 aces).

Foot 2 counts units of 4 aces up to 16 (i.e. 4 aces, 8 aces, 12 aces, 16 aces).

Combining the two allows you to keep track of how many aces have been played up to 20 (last position on both feet).

Obviously 20 is only 5 decks worth of aces, so this won't get you to all the possible situations in 6 or 8 decks, but could still be useful (or could be adapted so that each foot has more 'positions' to facilitate higher counting).

I have not tried or used this method (I've yet to adopt an ace side count), but I liked the logic and subtlety to it.