Single deck advice needed

[FrankieT]

I live in an area where one of the two closest casinos is a single deck blackjack game.

This single deck game is pitch of course. Dealer hits on soft 17, you can't double after splits, you can only double on 10 and 11, you can resplit aces(pretty much the only decent rule) penetration is about 50%

Wondering if there are basic strategy changes and other strategy changes given these specific rules. (I read somewhere that you don't hit 7,7 vs 10 in single deck?? Any other juicy tidbits I don't know)

Also, wondering if you have a web page with the complete zen count chart giving all the play adjustments made according to the count ( i've been using kevin blackwoods HI opt II chart in the back of his book but it's heavily rounded and I would like a chart totally totally devoted to zen count with unrounded numbers)




I like this game because it's really hard to screw up the count and really easy to calculate the conversion factor (I usually start at 1 and add .25 for every six cards seen) to near perfection. I used to use the HI OPT II system and got good at counting aces but thought why not switch to zen count and use that extra brain power to calculate the conversion factor to perfection instead) and Zengrifter convinced me that ace side count is so much of a pain in the ass so what the hell.

Ok final question, is sitting on third base a good idea because you get the most information before having to make a decision, especially if you can calculate conversion factors on the go?
On the rare occasion that the conversion factor gets past 2 (24+ cards seen) I add .4 per each 6 cards seen, this only occurs when i'm in third base. I'm convinced that's its the best spot since you get the most information (from players acting before you) before you make a decision, your basically getting more deck penetration than if you were sitting at the first spot

 

[KenSmith]

To be sure you have the basic strategy down, use the Basic Strategy Engine.

Since you can only double on 10 or 11, many of the single deck changes don't apply. Still, you may find a few if you've been playing double deck or shoes before.
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Third base definitely has its advantages for a counter, but the pit may be more suspicious of you, and the other players will often give you grief over plays like hitting 12 vs 4,5,6. I often sit a chair off third base for this reason.
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I don't know any place online to get a full Zen index list. Perhaps someone else knows of one.
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Your conversion factor plan is interesting, and one I've never considered. While I think it's a reasonably good idea, I will also mention that I think extra precision is often overrated. Most of your edge comes from getting the money in the circle when you have an edge. Everything else is just gravy.
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Last of all, I blasted a couple of duplicate posts of your question. Most regulars here will see your message no matter which forum heading you post under. Welcome aboard!

 

[FrankieT]

thank you appreciate it

 

[zengrifter]

I think Blackwood's HO2#s will work just fine for ZEN, but her are the un-rounded ZEN#s (remember, I'm a beleiver in heavily rounded#s) -
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm

As for beating a full-pay (3/2) 10-11 only h17 50% game, you'll need a 1-10 spread -or- drop out after the 1st round count tanks.

Its not a good game (poor rules/poor pene)... BUT watch carefully without being obvious and you may discover that one or more dealers flash their holecards. zg

 

[KenSmith]

As for beating a full-pay (3/2) 10-11 only h17 50% game, you'll need a 1-10 spread -or- drop out after the 1st round count tanks.

Surely this game isn't that bad. I haven't simmed it, but I would expect you can make a decent profit with a smaller spread than that.

 

[zengrifter]

I don't know, 1-6? Its not a generally "considered playable" game. Anyone care to sim it? zg

 

[KenSmith]

A 1-6 spread in this game will get you to +1.0% IBA (Initial Bet Advantage).

 

[zengrifter]

A 1-6 spread in this game will get you to +1.0% IBA (Initial Bet Advantage).

I'm not familiar with 'IBA', whats the definition? zg

 

[KenSmith]

IBA = Initial Bet Advantage.

A 1% IBA means that your expected win is 1% of the total amounts you bet as an initial bet, ignoring the amounts you doubled and split with. Your IBA will always be a higher number than your TBA (Total Bet Advantage), because it is a ratio calculated with a lower denominator.

I like to use IBA instead of TBA, because it allows you to more easily think in terms like this: My average bet will be around $100, I'll play 100 hands an hour, so my expected win is $100 * 100 * 1% = $100 expected win.

 

[zengrifter]

Got it. But in the subject game, given the Reno-rules and the 50% pene, assuming he has a heads-up game, non rule-of-six, I cant envision a frequency of elevated bets that would push the yield of 1-6 to 2u/100 rounds. zg

 

[FrankieT]

I use only 1-4 spread in these games. $15 for 1 or less, $40 for 2 to 4, $60 for 5 or 6, $80 for 7+, I have about a $5000 bankroll and this is what Kevin Blackwood suggests for single deck games ($15 is the table minimum). I think he suggests this because there's only two hands in 5 to 7 (some times 4) person games and you will be easily spottable by the casino from the many times you drop from $80 to $15 after a new hand is dealt. I might start using Blackwoods two deck bet spread ($20 for +2, 10$ more for each count above that for a maximum of $80 for +8).
Oh yeah I forgot to tell you guys the table minimum is $15 and the rules dictate that the dealer hit only on soft 17 not hard 17 (wasn't sure if what you mean by H17 is hitting on hard 17, do some casinos hit on hard 17 or do you always mean hit on soft 17 when you say H17).

 

[zengrifter]

What you describe 15-80 is 1-5+.
Blackwood refers to a "playable" 1D game - the rules you describe need higher pene and FEWER PLAYERS.

If I had to play under those conditions, I would bet like this (ZEN)-

15 +1
30 +2
60 +3
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After the first round if the count tanks I would not place a bet until shuffle. I would also like to not even bety the first round. zg

 

[jetace]

How do you get away with that Zen? Are you implying you are wonging in and out while sitting at the table? Seems like heat would be a major factor in that strategy.

 

[zengrifter]

Look at it this way - if you only be EVERY OTHER negative hand your average min bet would be $7.50. You can come up with endless bullshit to avoid a hand -

"I lost two in a row, now I skip one."
"Oh, first hand off the shuffle, no good." - etc.

Just keep making up excuses that sound like stupid gambler nonsense -
"Oh look he hit 16! He screwed it up,I'll skip one!"

"Oh look he doubled on A7, I'll wait for shuffle!"
"Oh no the dealer just said 'good-luck' thats sooo unlucky, I'll wait for a new shuffle!"

zg

 

[Mikeaber]

ZG, do many of the places you play allow you to come in after the first hand even if you're holding a spot? Most of the places I've played, once you've sat out a hand, make you have to wait until the first hand of the next shuffle to come back in. Talking about Single and Double deck tables in the above. 6-deck they'll let you come in and out about as much as you want because "everyone knows you can't count a 6-deck shoe!" :laugh:

 

[Canceler]

(wasn't sure if what you mean by H17 is hitting on hard 17, do some casinos hit on hard 17 or do you always mean hit on soft 17 when you say H17).

The 17 always refers to soft 17. H17 means they hit soft 17, S17 means they stand on soft 17.

 

[zengrifter]

ZG, do many of the places you play allow you to come in after the first hand even if you're holding a spot? Most of the places I've played, once you've sat out a hand, make you have to wait until the first hand of the next shuffle to come back in. Talking about Single and Double deck tables in the above. 6-deck they'll let you come in and out about as much as you want because "everyone knows you can't count a 6-deck shoe!" :laugh:

Yes, out west most games 1-8D DO allow 'mid-entry' zg

 

[Mikeaber]

Here in the mid-west, the Indian Casinos and those in Kansas City that I have played at, do not allow mid-shoe entry in Double Deck. They don't even play single deck except at Harrah's Prairrie Band north of Topeka. Of course, as Harrah's typically does, it is a 6:5 game. However, they do not climb on your case if you sit-out the rest of a shoe and come back in at the start of the next one.

 

[FrankieT]

Ok Zengrifter, lets say I use your bet spread (1+ $15, 2+ $30, 3+ 60$....8+=$210), obviously i'd need a huge bank roll to (like $21,000?)minimize the risk of ruin playing with these high bets. But assuming I get this bank roll, how much will I make each hour with this bet spread, given that I will bet every single hand, no mid shoe entry or skipping out on neg counts.

Oh yeah, also assuming that the one $15 table they have there averages about 4 to 5 players at any given time and i'd be using the zen count