Splitting 10s

[kewljason]

The whole splitting tens thing is way overblown.

Can anyone on here point to a situation where they got a backoff simply due to splitting tens? Not the time you were playing the Spaniard and the floor was watching, and finally backed you off when you split tens. But a clean game that got sweaty when you split tens?

Can't say that I was backed off as a direct result of splitting tens, but there were several times that I was definitely drawing more attention after doing so. I have always had a policy that when I do split tens, I depart at first shuffle after doing so, so the extent of the heat isn't always known. Just by default it is a play that will draw attention, for 2 reason. 1.) The dealer often calls out splitting tens, and 2.) If playing with other players, usually someone will make a fuss or comment about it. Anything that draws attention like that when you have your max bet out is not a good thing.

I also think the level of one's play has a lot to do with it. Some one spreading $10-$80, who splits tens with their max bet of $80 out probably won't be backed off just for that, but someone spreading $100-$800, who splits tens, may find that to be a deciding factor. Especially if you split 2 or 3 times and the dealer breaks. That may very well be 'the straw' that does you in.

 

[aslan]

Can't say that I was backed off as a direct result of splitting tens, but there were several times that I was definitely drawing more attention after doing so. I have always had a policy that when I do split tens, I depart at first shuffle after doing so, so the extent of the heat isn't always known. Just by default it is a play that will draw attention, for 2 reason. 1.) The dealer often calls out splitting tens, and 2.) If playing with other players, usually someone will make a fuss or comment about it. Anything that draws attention like that when you have your max bet out is not a good thing.

I also think the level of one's play has a lot to do with it. Some one spreading $10-$80, who splits tens with their max bet of $80 out probably won't be backed off just for that, but someone spreading $100-$800, who splits tens, may find that to be a deciding factor. Especially if you split 2 or 3 times and the dealer breaks. That may very well be 'the straw' that does you in.

I fully agree with kewljason. According to one casino employee, when winnings get into the thousands, they look upon the possibility of advantage play with more seriousness than lower amounts would demand.

 

[kewljason]

I fully agree with kewljason. According to one casino employee, when winnings get into the thousands, they look upon the possibility of advantage play with more seriousness than lower amounts would demand.

I have had a couple conversations with a gentleman that works in a pit, who told me a list of 6 thing that a card counter does or plays that a card counter makes. These aren't plays or moves that are exclusive to a card counter, so no one play or move identifies one as such, but when a player employs several of these plays/moves, it is reason to take a closer look. For what it is worth splitting 10's is number 2 on that list. So while splitting ten's doesn't automatically peg one as a counter as other players do it, combined with other plays/moves it can shorten your longevity, if that is something you are concerned about.

 

[AC232323]

I have had a couple conversations with a gentleman that works in a pit, who told me a list of 6 thing that a card counter does or plays that a card counter makes. These aren't plays or moves that are exclusive to a card counter, so no one play or move identifies one as such, but when a player employs several of these plays/moves, it is reason to take a closer look. For what it is worth splitting 10's is number 2 on that list. So while splitting ten's doesn't automatically peg one as a counter as other players do it, combined with other plays/moves it can shorten your longevity, if that is something you are concerned about.

It would be interesting to see that list...

 

[jaygruden]

I have had a couple conversations with a gentleman that works in a pit, who told me a list of 6 thing that a card counter does or plays that a card counter makes. These aren't plays or moves that are exclusive to a card counter, so no one play or move identifies one as such, but when a player employs several of these plays/moves, it is reason to take a closer look. For what it is worth splitting 10's is number 2 on that list. So while splitting ten's doesn't automatically peg one as a counter as other players do it, combined with other plays/moves it can shorten your longevity, if that is something you are concerned about.

If you don't mind.....What were the other five things?

 

[blackjack avenger]

a sim shall lead them

If you sim "playing" and compare spl's to not one can determine the cost of cards eaten by the plays. The plays still have value.

A brief study was done showing if you wait for a higher TC; RA?, one does not lose much EV while cutting greatly the frequency of splitting 10s.

Aslan, touched on it. The casinos hate big winners, so the easily drawn conclusion is one can split when losing and not when winning.

Since they appear to not offer a huge EV one could choose to:
Spl when losing
Spl using RA indicies

A little controversial one:grin::
Once one is up on these plays don't do them again because your up; possibly lifetime expected EV, on these indicies.

Some final thoughts:
If one has not faced the mentioned hands in a session then when you do split it appears you always do! This would probably be more of an option for hit and run, non rated infrequent players.

A final final thought :
Do them when you are close to leaving as KJ mentioned

 

[kewljason]

If you don't mind.....What were the other five things?

How you play 16 vs 10 was # 1. Splitting 10's #2, Varying bet amounts number 3. I don't remember the order of the other 3 put they were spreading to multiple hands, taking money off the table, and how you play insurance. Pretty basic stuff. The one thing that surprised me was the order he placed them in. He said how 16 vs 10 is played is the number one give away because most players play it one way or the other all the time. When players stand sometimes and hit sometimes it catches his eye. It was the same rational with the insurance wager. It was just one guy's thought's, but I found it interesting.

 

[aslan]

How you play 16 vs 10 was # 1. Splitting 10's #2, Varying bet amounts number 3. I don't remember the order of the other 3 put they were spreading to multiple hands, taking money off the table, and how you play insurance. Pretty basic stuff. The one thing that surprised me was the order he placed them in. He said how 16 vs 10 is played is the number one give away because most players play it one way or the other all the time. When players stand sometimes and hit sometimes it catches his eye. It was the same rational with the insurance wager. It was just one guy's thought's, but I found it interesting.

He must've got it from somewhere-- my guess, a house-sponsored Zender course.

 

[Gamblor]

He must've got it from somewhere-- my guess, a house-sponsored Zender course.

The other thing about splitting 10's is that of everything in that list, its the only thing a ploppy does very infrequently.

 

[AC232323]

The other thing about splitting 10's is that of everything in that list, its the only thing a ploppy does very infrequently.

That's very true. I've seen many ploppies that play 16v10 the same way I do. That is whenever they have a larger bet out they are afraid of busting it and won't hit, but they will when they have min out.

 

[UK-21]

In my limited experience here in the UK I'd say it's pretty common - people split their tens because they can, not because it's prudent to do so. Even had a dealer ask someone if they'd like to split their queens before now. The best ever was a guy who split two kings against a dealer nine - now that takes more balls than brain cells . . .

 

[Gamblor]

That's very true. I've seen many ploppies that play 16v10 the same way I do. That is whenever they have a larger bet out they are afraid of busting it and won't hit, but they will when they have min out.

They also often surrender more often on bigger bets.

 

[Nynefingers]

The whole splitting tens thing is way overblown.

Can anyone on here point to a situation where they got a backoff simply due to splitting tens? Not the time you were playing the Spaniard and the floor was watching, and finally backed you off when you split tens. But a clean game that got sweaty when you split tens?

I played a game recently where I knew I was leaving town the next day and wouldn't be back for some time, so I was willing to play more aggressively than I otherwise would. In particular, I knew I had stayed longer than I should. But, I wasn't getting any noticeable heat either. I split tens at a high count, along with a couple of other correct, but aggressive, index plays. Within a few minutes, I was flat-bet. I can't say that splitting tens is what did it, and in fact it probably wasn't, but I can't say that wasn't the cause either. Most likely it was simply that I played too long and won too much while spreading my bets with the count. But splitting tens certainly could have contributed.

 

[aslan]

In my limited experience here in the UK I'd say it's pretty common - people split their tens because they can, not because it's prudent to do so. Even had a dealer ask someone if they'd like to split their queens before now. The best ever was a guy who split two kings against a dealer nine - now that takes more balls than brain cells . . .

But you would double down with a ten against a nine. Of course, a ten is not a made hand. But still.

I wonder what the index is to split tens against a nine?

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Sure splitting tens might cost you a round. But what would you rather have, another round where you will still mathematically lose more hands than win, or the chance to have multiple hands in the same round where you know you will have a strong starting card against a weak dealer upcard?

There are lots of decent reasons one may choose to not split tens, but losing a round is not one of them.

Personally, I love to do it. I am a known ten-splitter with pit critters at a few local casinos, and have raked in a ton of victories by doing it. Once, with a medium-largish bet out, the dealer flipped his hole card prematurely without me standing, as i had a pile of chips in my hand ready to split. I said wait a minute. PC comes over, and lets me split tens against a known dealer 15, and my track record of splitting tens led to his voice making it abundantly clear he didn't think I was just taking a shot.

My experience probably makes me a bit biased as my luck splitting tens has certainly been on the right side of the curve. I would honestly estimate, factoring in selective memory, that close to 1/4 of the time I've done it I have taken away a dealer 21

And lastly, splitting tens with a min bet is a great tool to get rid of certain irritating players with.

To answer the original question, I would think not being able to resplit tens would hurt a very small, but not nonexistent, amount. The opportunity to potentially have 4 max bets out vs 2. It's rare when you get that chance, but a big deal when you do...

 

[blackjack avenger]

mentioned

I played a game recently where I knew I was leaving town the next day and wouldn't be back for some time, so I was willing to play more aggressively than I otherwise would. In particular, I knew I had stayed longer than I should. But, I wasn't getting any noticeable heat either. I split tens at a high count, along with a couple of other correct, but aggressive, index plays. Within a few minutes, I was flat-bet. I can't say that splitting tens is what did it, and in fact it probably wasn't, but I can't say that wasn't the cause either. Most likely it was simply that I played too long and won too much while spreading my bets with the count. But splitting tens certainly could have contributed.

I mentioned not splitting when up. Can never know unless you ask the pit. It appears winning? the splits was the final straw?

 

[tthree]

Sure splitting tens might cost you a round. But what would you rather have, another round where you will still mathematically lose more hands than win, or the chance to have multiple hands in the same round where you know you will have a strong starting card against a weak dealer upcard?

There are lots of decent reasons one may choose to not split tens, but losing a round is not one of them.

Personally, I love to do it. I am a known ten-splitter with pit critters at a few local casinos, and have raked in a ton of victories by doing it. Once, with a medium-largish bet out, the dealer flipped his hole card prematurely without me standing, as i had a pile of chips in my hand ready to split. I said wait a minute. PC comes over, and lets me split tens against a known dealer 15, and my track record of splitting tens led to his voice making it abundantly clear he didn't think I was just taking a shot.

My experience probably makes me a bit biased as my luck splitting tens has certainly been on the right side of the curve. I would honestly estimate, factoring in selective memory, that close to 1/4 of the time I've done it I have taken away a dealer 21

And lastly, splitting tens with a min bet is a great tool to get rid of certain irritating players with.

To answer the original question, I would think not being able to resplit tens would hurt a very small, but not nonexistent, amount. The opportunity to potentially have 4 max bets out vs 2. It's rare when you get that chance, but a big deal when you do...

You don't get an extra round that you will most likely lose . You get an extra round at max bet and a huge advantage if you are near the end of the shoe when you don't split tens. You should only be splitting tens at a monster count against a 4, 5 or 6. If you have a large sample and take away a dealer 21 25% of the time you should be making a dealer 21 25% of the time. It is just as likely.

Caution to the noobs the above quoted post is not advice you should follow. A big reason you don't split against a dealer 2 or 3 is your count most likely doesn't include the 8 or 9. These are the key cards that are needed to make a dealer 21. I only have indices for splitting versus dealer 4. 5 and 6. I rarely get the opportunity to even make this decision.

 

[paymypush]

Does anyone double down after receiving an ace on a split 10?

 

[AussiePlayer]

Does anyone double down after receiving an ace on a split 10?

I seriously doubt it. If there is an index for it, it would be so high you would probably never see it anyway.

 

[tthree]

Does anyone double down after receiving an ace on a split 10?

Not me . A max bet win or push is good enough for me. Why invite such big downswings when you are guaranteed a no risk situation for a big win.