Hi everyone! I am a recreational BJ player who uses various counting systems. I don't play with a lot of cash like some of you black chippers... I normally spread based on my starting buy in and base my spread by max up to approx 30% of my amount that I am playing with. For example of I'm playing with $25 as 1U, I may spread from 1X to 3X starting out with 300; 1 to 6X if playing with 500, etc. If I win I continue to increase until the recommended spread. My reason for doing this is to decrease my chance of losing everything on one or two big bets especially when the count is hi early in the shoe. Is this a winning strategy in the long run?
Spread strategy... good or bad??
- Thread starter Ace007
- Start date
HockeXpert
Well-Known Member
Ace:Ace007 said:
IMO, you are effectively under bankrolled/overbetting and this is not a good strategy. Assuming you are playing 6d shoes, spreading 1-3 or 1-6 won't do much unless you are wonging. If you are playing with a $300-500 session bankroll, you should be playing a $5-10 or lesser unit size. Playing a $25 unit with a $300 session bank is going to lead to frequent failure, initial overbetting and eventual underbetting when the count rises and you're not winning.
More details about the game and whether you play all is needed to give you a more decisive answer.
The reason you are spreading is that you want your big bets in high counts to make up for the time spent losing money to the house at your smallest bet.
By reducing the size of your max bets, you are reducing your edge significantly. Spreading 1-3 in a shoe game could very well mean that you do not even attain a positive edge overall. If so, you may as well be completely risk averse and not play at all.
By reducing the size of your max bets, you are reducing your edge significantly. Spreading 1-3 in a shoe game could very well mean that you do not even attain a positive edge overall. If so, you may as well be completely risk averse and not play at all.
BJgenius007
Well-Known Member
I have a technique to reduce the required spread if you don't mind being an asshole everybody hates. Normally you need 20 to 1 spread for 8D and 16 to 1 spread for 6D to beat the house and win 2 units per hour. Using the technique, you can reduce the spread to 10:1 and 8:1 respectively.Ace007 said:
This is how. When the true count drops below zero, you just play every other hand. Basically you let other people play neg EV hands more and you play such hands less. Because TC is negative, most people will lose money in this streak, many will drop out. Some will curse you no doubt. (I found out men are more tolerant than women in this situation.) But it will open up seats and you can play 2 hands when TC is above +1. And I found out less people are better in game play.
Thanks for the input all! I was hoping that by betting max up to 30% of bankroll my ROR would decrease at the expense of a smaller profit... at least early in the shoe (when hi count in the beginning of the shoe is not as accurate as towards the end) like "ycming" was saying. If I am able to turn a nice profit I re-adjust to 30% of my current bankroll, so my spread would increase... even to the point of a 1-12 spread. I find that I usually last a long time (sorry for the pun!) either losing or winning. I usually play just recreationally like mentioned earlier, so I'm mainly interested in playing for awhile with friends, drinking, and hollerin' at the ladies! I have a fixed limit bankroll that I play with which is why I don't start with a bigger spread. Still in the long run I would like to be + not -! Thanks! I am taking all of your input into consideration as I've still got a lot to learn about this game. A lot of times in this game of black jack what seems not to make sense works and what does makes sense doesn't!
HockeXpert
Well-Known Member
Ace:Ace007 said:
Your technique may lower your ror but when you're playing with a risk of ruin so close to 100%, what is the difference between a 99% and a 98% ror? There is no profit potential with such a small spread on a 6-8d shoe game.
You may want to try sitting at a new shoe, stop playing when the count reaches -1 or maybe -2 and either wait til the next shoe and try again or sit, take calls, "go to the bathroom", yuck it up with your friends and wait for a TC>+1 and jump back in if your goal is to simply lose less. This is definitely not a strategy to win money but to limit your loses. It will keep you from betting at all when the count goes South and you are playing at a disadvantage greater than the he.
There are no tables under $25? You should be playing the $1 tables with that size br.
aslan
Well-Known Member
I am more often than not, not a classic hit and run player. If I spread 20 to 1, I would be barred from every casino in AC and Vegas.BJgenius007 said:
Also, to spread 20 to 1, I would have to start with twice my current bankroll.
I am perfectly happy with winning 1 unit an hour. Thanks. When I have a larger bankroll I will play a higher minimum game, since one of my objectives is not being barred. Note, that playing pure hit and run I am not adverse to playing 40 to 1, especially if I can wong in. (In a $5 min game)
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