# Steering the bust (10) card questions

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
As described in Breaking Vegas. What is the proper name for this tactic? What is the steer strategy? Based on the dealer's upcard and my hand, I presume? Obviously I don't want to blindly bring the 10-card down on the dealer, regardless of my hand or the dealr's card.

So what's the scoop? zg

#### weavin42

##### Well-Known Member
Im not sure, according to sonny, it doesn't sound like it was successful enough to produce reliable profits (see my previous post). I'm not sure if it would be best to implement a 'fuzzy' hole card strategy. That is to say if you know the ten is coming, if it will help your hand (little) vs. not hurt the dealer or not be reasonable for the dealer to take. It might be better to take the card vs. certain dealer up cards than others.

I'm sure there would be an optimum way to play this strategy. If you consider your cards the probability that the next card is the 10 and the dealers up card.

I would be interested in any input as to optimal play for steering 10's.

#### EasyRhino

##### Well-Known Member
Not really knowing anything, I would think that if you were playing full table as described in the book, you'd want to always steer the T to the dealer.

If you were playing one spot, I could imagine you'd keep the T for yourself if your hand was something like a 9-11 (hell, maybe even a blackjack).

#### Sonny

##### Well-Known Member
EasyRhino said:
If you were playing one spot, I could imagine you'd keep the T for yourself if your hand was something like a 9-11 (hell, maybe even a blackjack).
Ideally you would want to spread to multiple hands and steer the 10 to the dealer's hit card. If he busts, all of your hands win. If he doesn’t need a hit card, you still get the 10 as your first card of the next hand. I think Semyon said that you can get a 33% advantage on each hand when you steer the ten to the dealer’s hit card. Of course, you have to be precisely accurate otherwise your advantage is lost. This ain’t something that you can mess around with.

-Sonny-

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
Sonny said:
Ideally you would want to spread to multiple hands and steer the 10 to the dealer's hit card. If he busts, all of your hands win. If he doesn’t need a hit card, you still get the 10 as your first card of the next hand. I think Semyon said that you can get a 33% advantage on each hand when you steer the ten to the dealer’s hit card.
There must be a strategy, not just blindly always bring the 10-card to the dealer? Suppose dealer shows 7 and my three hands are 10-10-11.
Just stand on them and give the dealer the 10-card? zg

#### RJT

##### Well-Known Member
Ok, the only information that is freely avalible on this technique is Semyon's Advanced Technique DVD and i think there's very good reason for that. The ROR associated with steering a 10 to the dealer is huge. If it goes wrong - and often even if it goes right, or nearly right - you'll end up with a lot of big bets out there facing a disadvantage. This means you need a huge bankroll to play and the swings can make counting's rollercoaster seem like a sunday drive.
Unlike steering an Ace there is no one best strategy for steering a 10 - it very much depends on the hands you have in front of you.
Often if you can you're better off steering the 10 onto one of your hands if a double down situation arrises (10 and 11's only) but then when using this technique properly you are going to leave the affore mentioned large bets out at a disadvantage doing this.
Steering tens to the dealer - well as with most steering techniques you need control over the whole table, but it does offer several oppertunites. You need to be very accurate with you cut. If you are out, you'll lose. If you are swithering between whether it was 52 or 53 - always go with the lower number. Your 10 turning up early is a a game killer, where as a late 10 leaves you more room to manouver.
Think of it like this - even as a second dealer hit card, the 10 carries an advantage in a lot of situations. If you miss the double you were targetting the 10 for, you can try and bust the dealer. If you miss the dealer, the first card dealt to 1st base should be a 10.
All this said, i would like to go back to the point i made at the start, that being that there's not much information out there on this, and for very good reason. My feeling is that this does not get much discussion because it was never particularly successful even for the people who were really good at it. It's a wonderful play on paper, but unfortunately that's where it stays wonderful. Semyon's team's success with this technique i think was greatly exagerated by Busting Vegas and his failure with it while SI was around pretty much directly contributed to SI collapsing. Alongside this, conditions today are different to those faced in the early 90'. More casinos are using a cut card to cover the back of the stack, so catching a glimps of the card is more difficult. Less casinos allow you to cut under a deck, meaning you have to be accurate at cutting larger packs etc etc.

RJT.

#### RJT

##### Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
There must be a strategy, not just blindly always bring the 10-card to the dealer? Suppose dealer shows 7 and my three hands are 10-10-11.
Just stand on them and give the dealer the 10-card? zg
Well if you've set this up right in the preceeding rounds, the 10 should not be the first hit card for the players! You should have the 10 as the 2nd or 3rd card so that you have some room to decide where you are best to land it and so you don't take too much of a penelty by breaking BS on other hands.
In that situation i'd ideally want the 10 to be the 3rd hand. I would double the 2 10's as normal and double the 11, hoping for the steered 10. If i was out on my cut i'd then hope that i was only out by one so the 10 was the dealer's first hit card.

RJT.

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
RJT said:
Often if you can you're better off steering the 10 onto one of your hands if a double down situation arrises (10 and 11's only) but then when using this technique properly you are going to leave the affore mentioned large bets out at a disadvantage doing this.
So is there a precise playing strategy for either taking the 10-card or steering it to the dealer, dependent on my hands or the dealr's card? zg

#### RJT

##### Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
So is there a precise playing strategy for either taking the 10-card or steering it to the dealer, dependent on my hands or the dealr's card? zg
I haven't come across one, but i have spoken to a few people concerning this. If you have a 10 or 11 (especially 11) it's normally best to steer the 10 to the double down if you can do it without having to break BS too often. The exception would be if the dealer has a 10 up, as when the dealer has a 10 up is actually the most advantageous time for the first hit card to be a 10 (if he has to draw at all he will bust).

RJT.

#### mdlbj

##### Well-Known Member
This is a team play zg. The others at the table will know when to or not to take another if you are trying to land the 10 value card on one of your hands in play. Correct term is card steering. You can also do this to bust the dealer. Yet as RJT stated, you will exp - huge BR swings.

I would suggest contacting Siemon ( SP ) at blackjackscience.com for more info on the matter.

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
mdlbj said:
This is a team play zg. The others at the table will know when to or not to take another if you are trying to land the 10 value card on one of your hands in play. Correct term is card steering. You can also do this to bust the dealer. Yet as RJT stated, you will exp - huge BR swings.

I would suggest contacting Siemon ( SP ) at blackjackscience.com for more info on the matter.
So, nobody has the play strategy for 10-steering? MDLBJ, use your MIT connections and get us the strategy for steer-play - when to take the 10 -AND- when to give it to the dealer. You may assume 3-hands played when the 10-card is being steered. zg

#### Sonny

##### Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
So, nobody has the play strategy for 10-steering? MDLBJ, use your MIT connections and get us the strategy for steer-play - when to take the 10 -AND- when to give it to the dealer. You may assume 3-hands played when the 10-card is being steered. zg
It is always better to win all 3 hands than to win only 1. Always steer the ten to the dealer. Even if you have an 11 you wouldn't take the ten to win a double if it meant possibly losing the other two hands. Steering the ten to the dealer means that the entire table will probably win. Don't jeopardize that for a single hand.

-Sonny-

#### RJT

##### Well-Known Member
Sonny said:
It is always better to win all 3 hands than to win only 1. Always steer the ten to the dealer. Even if you have an 11 you wouldn't take the ten to win a double if it meant possibly losing the other two hands. Steering the ten to the dealer means that the entire table will probably win. Don't jeopardize that for a single hand.

-Sonny-
Now that depends, yes the variance is going to increase, but so is the EV. Think of it this way, if you have 3 hands out and gain a 30% advantage on each from steering the 10 to the dealer (in fact it's between a 20-30% advantage on each hand so this estimate is high) that's a total of 90% advantage over the round.
If one hand is an 11 and you can guarentee a 10 for the 21 you are looking at having not far off a 200% advantage (less of course due to the times that the dealer pushes your 21 and due to the disadvantage on the other 2 hands).
Personally i go with you in so far as i would want the variance reducing play, in fact i wouldn't even steer the 10 to the dealer, i would steer it to my own hand and take the 13% edge. More reliable less variable.

RJT.

#### mdlbj

##### Well-Known Member

Try posting on the forums there.

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
mdlbj said:
Try posting on the forums there.
You can do that. Or even take a course, or contact Semyon and tell him you want to write an interview or something.
Get the playing strategy, as opposed to the technique.

Get us some answers here! zg

#### mdlbj

##### Well-Known Member
The strategy is straight forward yet, you will have to couple card steering with shuffle tracking and hole carding.

When the dealer is rolling, this give you a chance to gain some info..

If you shuffle track well, I think you can get a good approximation. In the end, you want to see the bottom card after the roll and cut an exact amount off i.e a deck or a deck and a half, wait until you count down the cards and know what spot that card is goig to land on.

There is much more to it but I will point you in a direction that may be more helpful than I.

RJT or Bojack can give more details.

I would contact Semyon yet, its your question.

Burnning Vegas has some detail about the techniques you are asking about. There was a thread earlier regarding the value of having an ace and splitting them, the way I see it, an ace is the best card you can have in front of you in the game of blackjack. Ask a pro.

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
mdlbj said:
The strategy is straight forward yet, you will have to couple card steering with shuffle tracking and hole carding.
Stop it! ALL that we are talikng about is the PLAYING STRATEGY (assumes 100% 10-steering accuracy) -
NOT THE STEERING/TRACKING TECHNIQUE (ie, NOT the skill part).

Someone get us the playing strategy, please. zg

#### zengrifter

##### Banned
Sonny said:
It is always better to win all 3 hands than to win only 1. Always steer the ten to the dealer. Even if you have an 11 you wouldn't take the ten to win a double if it meant possibly losing the other two hands. Steering the ten to the dealer means that the entire table will probably win. Don't jeopardize that for a single hand.
If thats what it is, standing on 11-11-11 vs 6, etc. then it looks so bad (suspicious- like holecarding) that the player would need to look very drunk or retarded.

I think there is a playing strategy. zg

#### SilentBob420BMFJ

##### Banned
zengrifter said:
As described in Breaking Vegas. What is the proper name for this tactic? What is the steer strategy? Based on the dealer's upcard and my hand, I presume? Obviously I don't want to blindly bring the 10-card down on the dealer, regardless of my hand or the dealr's card.

So what's the scoop? zg
would you mind explaining to me what you are talking about? there are no steer in blackjack, unless of course you were playing outside at a ranch in texas or something..