Still Entertainment After All These Years!

eps6724 · Dec 14, 2006

If the goal is to just have fun and lose, I have a lot of jokes. If you were to just send me your bankroll, I would gladly forward you pages of jokes so that you could have fun anytime that you wish, and not even have to spend gas money!

Seriously, maybe I am off, but...it just seems that for me-a game is a game is a game. I'm self-employed, travel most of the east and mid-west, so I gamble every morning. I intend to continue studying and practicing, and in about 3 months I will take my 1K bankroll and see what I can do. If, at the end of the year I can hold in my hand 2-3k after expenses, I will consider myself to have had a successful year. And I don't particularly care if I win $100.00 every trip for 20 trips, or win it all back plus my goal amount next Decmber 31.

So I will continue to study-and part of my BJ entertainment actually comes from reading these threads!

azbetsgonewild · Dec 14, 2006

I hear these nonsense stories all the time.

How they say auto - shufflers cheat players, that they are somehow 'stacking' the deck, and they do this and do that. That this casino is so much worse than the next, LOL!!

They all suck!!(your money out of your pocket) .

Its just a typical, run of the mill indian casino, they use the best possible odds in the game to net them the most possible wins.

You want to win at blackjack, #1, learn to count, and #2, go to Vegas!! Don't piddle around with some off the highway truckstop style casino and then complain that they take all of your money, haha!! Extract your head from your ass!!

They only take it because you give it to them!!

joel099 · Dec 16, 2006

my point exactly

azbetsgonewild said:

I hear these nonsense stories all the time.

How they say auto - shufflers cheat players, that they are somehow 'stacking' the deck, and they do this and do that. That this casino is so much worse than the next, LOL!!

They all suck!!(your money out of your pocket) .

Its just a typical, run of the mill indian casino, they use the best possible odds in the game to net them the most possible wins.

QUOTE]

Right!..my point exactly..FIRST---Blackjack is a form of entertainment...NOT a means of employment....You show me a person that is "UP" for the year, and that will be a person that doesnt play blackjack very often.. Not very often at all.......An "OCCASSIONAL" player if you will.............

Well lets put it this way: A person that is "up" certaintly doesnt playblackjack FIVE days a week. Not at my playground called CASINO ARIZONA...NOT at ANY playground that calls itself an indian casino.... Because-- you cant expect to win at blackjack EVERY TIME!!!. Not even in Las vegas on the two deck shoes!!

SECONDLY- when you DO play, you can expect to win about 2 out of every 5 trips out to the blackjack tables....

Now I ask you---- are those great odds??

They are ONLY good odds IF you absolutely just MURDERED the casino winning high profits on those two trips that you did win..

COME TO CASINO ARIZONA and watch. We have the BEST card counters and the best shuffle trackers in the state of arizona playing the $25-$500 max bet tables that use SIX DECK shoes!!!.They come in 3-5 days a week.There is about 10-12 of them is all...They all used to live and gamble in vegas and moved to arizona for whatever family reasons.

And the result is the same: They are all "down thousands of dollars" for the year and only occassionally take the casino for 8-10k on a "good day"..The problem is that they will win 8-10 grand AFTER LOSING 4 "buy-ins" of 4 grand each!!!!!!.. So, OVERALL--- they are still "down"... way down...way way down..Why do they continue to play?..

Very simple they ENJOY the game for one,Lets face it its an enjoyable ADDICTIVE game.. even tho- you are losing "hundreds of dollars" per shoe by betting table minimums, waiting for that one good shoe to start betting higher........ Yes you read that right....Casino arizona is such an "impenatrable fortress" that if you just bet $25 dollars per hand for "ONE shoe"(25 hands) and NEVER EVER raise the bet and play perfect startegy- you will ALREADY be DOWN in the HOLE about $150-250 dollars!!...sounds great doesnt it?????.yeah right...

The second reason these "Big time losers" like to play blackjack at casino arizona is because they like "winning the big bets" .....ie the double downs at $500 a hand - the blackjacks at $500 a hand------even though OVERALL they are losing and DOWN THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THE DAY!!!!!!!

and the THIRD reason these people play blackjack is because they are usually independently wealthy--- NOT from the game of blackjack but from other business deals that they are involved in or PROFITABLE businesses that they OWN...This is their "bankroll" for blackjack.... the truth!

You show me a professional blackjack player that makes $100k or higher per year( which is about what you would NEED for a 2-3 thousand dollar buy in every day-- 4 days a week)---- playing 3-4 days a week --

ANY way you show me some one that wins $100 k per year and ONLY plays blackjack for a living---and I will show you the easter bunny, santa clause and and anything else you want. ..

Joel

ScottH · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

Tell us how you are able to spot these great shuffletrackers and BEST card counters. It doesn't seem like you could spot a shuffletracker if he came right up to you and told you he was one.

supercoolmancool · Dec 16, 2006

Yah casinos can't even spot shuffle trackers. There play is almost undectable. They must tell you they are shuffle trackers. But also you said they have shuffle machines so then the shuffle trackers couldn't track the shuffle through the machine.

Sonny · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

I don’t play as often as some of the other people on this website, but I generally come out ahead most years. In 2006 I played about 200 hours and ended in the black. In 2005 I played a little over 300 hours and came out a winner again. In fact, my bankroll has not been in the red for the past six years. Sure, it fluctuates a lot and not every year is a winner, but I have never had to touch my original bankroll in the past six years. I have been playing exclusively with my winnings and they have continued to grow. Maybe it’s because I don’t use progression systems against CSMs…:laugh:

joel099 said:

I can guarantee that you don’t have “the best card counters and the best shuffle trackers” at your worthless little casino in Arizona. You’ve already told us that they have terrible rules and CSMs. If you’re going to lie, at least keep your stories straight. The people at your casino probably claim to be card counters, but so do you. I can see why Casino Arizona loves “card counters” so much!

joel099 said:

You’re talking to a few right here, and there are more out there as well. In fact, our very own Ken Smith just won a nice little prize:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3564

You really should do a little research before you start typing!

Look, we all agree that you can’t beat the game. If you want to whine about it, save it for your diary. Nobody here wants to hear about your opinions, especially when we are in the casinos proving you wrong every day. If thinking that the game is unbeatable makes you feel better about yourself, fine. There is no way you are going to convince us so just stop wasting our time. Why don’t you go try to prove to a pilot that air travel is not possible.

-Sonny-

joel099 · Dec 16, 2006

ScottH said:

I know them and they freely admit that they are "tracking the cards". the pit bosses DONT care here at CA because on a SIX DECK SHOE- you can still LOSE and lose BIG if your bet is any higher than $100 per hand..

joel099 · Dec 16, 2006

supercoolmancool said:

Right, BEFORE the cards go into the shoe- they are shuffled by a machine called a "shufflemaster" . These are used in 90% of ALL VEGAS casino's where
hand shuffling by the dealer is not done..

And right , their ability to count cards is not detectable UNLESS you get to know the player and they "admit to doing it"..And they will freely admit that it only gives them a 1-2% advantage and they also freely admit that they have had losing days in the 6-8 thousand range even on a krappy table where $500 is max bet..

ScottH · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

If someone comes up to you and tells you they are "tracking the cards", they are certainly not shuffletrackers. I know plenty of people who say they "track the cards", and they dont even know basic strategy. It really means nothing.

joel099 · Dec 16, 2006

Sonny said:

I am not saying the game is totally unbeatable. I am saying that you CAN win on those days that LUCK is on your side...

Lets face it- a person could be the best card counter in the world and they could still LOSE AND LOSE BIG if the
dealer is hot or if luck is NOT on their side........
Blackjack is a game that is unbeatable EVERYTIME and I would even say
that it is a game that is unbeatable 90% of the time..so why even bother to play??..simple for entertainment...If you go in the casino KNOWING that you will probably lose at blackjack then that is the right frame of mind to have..

This guy Ken smith will NOT win 90%- 100% of the time at good ol' CASINO ARIZONA...Dont care how big his bankroll is ...If he plays 5 days a week...good ol' CA WILL KICK HIS BUTT at least 2 if not 3 days out of the FIVE .The days that he DOES win , better be MONSTER WINS to "make up" for those MONSTER LOSSES on the losing days... and if he doesnt ?..simple he will be in "the negative" for the year, like the the rest of us....or are YOU
not going to "admit" that you are in "the negative" OVERALL on your blackjack play?..De NILE aint just a river...

sagefr0g · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

my record for about a year session by session:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=69&stc=1&d=1165951715

EasyRhino · Dec 16, 2006

I cannot think of a reason why a card counter would not expect slightly over half of his sessions to be winning ones.

Sure, on any individual hand, there's still a better chance of dealer win or push than a win. However, once you sit down for any length of time, I think the innate advantage the counter is playing with will manifest itself in slightly more winning sessions.

In fact, I would expect the % of winning sessions to skew even higher if winning sessions tend to get cut short. For instance, due to heat.

sagefr0g · Dec 16, 2006

EasyRhino said:

i did some simulations with regard to this. i had hopes that if one could induce a higher number of winning session relative to to losing sessions (ie winning sessions >losing sessions) that it may be possible to figure out a way to put some money on a session by session basis and win even more money)
by using a stop win approach a card counter can induce more winning sessions than losing session. see simulations below:

eps6724 · Dec 16, 2006

I know I have much still to learn, but in this thread there has been many mentions of shuffle tracking and shuffle machines. Wouldn't the major need of a shuffle tracker be to actually SEE the cards being shuffled-that is, by hand? And if so, why would a shuffle-tracker go to a casino that used these machines, anyway? Or have I misunderstood "shuffletracking"?

EPS

azbetsgonewild · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

Why do you keep blaming Casino Arizona?

Casino arizona is no different that any other casino with the same rules and limits on the game. Gila River, Harrahs, Fort Mcdowell, etc are all the same too. I suppose these are all 'impenetrable' fortresses too.

You are obviously a compulsive gambler, so why don't you just stay away??

However, I agree, the only real way to win as a counter overall is to work as a team, and you are just playing when the odds are slightly more in your favor than the casinos, there is no 'magic' to it that means you are automatically going to win, the difference is a good team of counters will always wind up ahead in the long run. These supposed 'counters' you speak of are probably morons.

But for your simple advantage player, unless you are playing table max bets and have a massive bankroll, you are not going to win big in the short run, or really even for the long run that much.

Personally, for me counting takes the enjoyment out of the game. You stand a better chance at a short term win if you just play basic strategy and use positive progressive betting strategys. A card counter has a max bet, a min bet, and an average bet and has to keep to his system, any extra risks he takes any moves outside the system kills his edge over the house and over time, will lose. But your average joe, can only expect small % profits on average over time.

azbetsgonewild · Dec 16, 2006

sagefr0g said:

236 million hands played, I don't think you could play that many rounds in a lifetime. LOL, just shows how the percentage won, over millions of rounds, is not that great.

Say on average, you play 100 rounds per hour, your percentage edge on average is 2-3%, say average $10 per round thats $1000 wagered per hour, expect approx $30 profit per hour. I suppose that is not that bad, but thats average over time of course, it may be -$100 per hour for weeks. Do you have the bankroll to survive the cold streaks? That is the real question.

ScottH · Dec 16, 2006

joel099 said:

I am not saying the game is totally unbeatable. I am saying that you CAN win on those days that LUCK is on your side...

Lets face it- a person could be the best card counter in the world and they could still LOSE AND LOSE BIG if the
dealer is hot or if luck is NOT on their side........
Blackjack is a game that is unbeatable EVERYTIME and I would even say
that it is a game that is unbeatable 90% of the time..so why even bother to play??..simple for entertainment...If you go in the casino KNOWING that you will probably lose at blackjack then that is the right frame of mind to have..

This guy Ken smith will NOT win 90%- 100% of the time at good ol' CASINO ARIZONA...Dont care how big his bankroll is ...If he plays 5 days a week...good ol' CA WILL KICK HIS BUTT at least 2 if not 3 days out of the FIVE .The days that he DOES win , better be MONSTER WINS to "make up" for those MONSTER LOSSES on the losing days... and if he doesnt ?..simple he will be in "the negative" for the year, like the the rest of us....or are YOU
not going to "admit" that you are in "the negative" OVERALL on your blackjack play?..De NILE aint just a river...

Joel, what great card counter told you he could beat the game EVERY single time? There are no decent card counters out there that will make that claim.

sagefr0g · Dec 16, 2006

azbetsgonewild said:

inorder for simulations to be meaningful one needs to produce huge numbers of hands or rounds. that is not to imply that ones play needs to be just as astonomical to see results the converge within reason.
yes indeed one needs a bankroll that will give one a reasonable chance survive risk of ruin.

bluewhale · Dec 16, 2006

sagefr0g said:

can you throw a legend on that graph? it will put things into prospective a lot better.

also, can we please stop entertaining joel's questions! he is clearly either just trying to screw around, or a complete moron. either way its taking away from people who have legitimate questions and actually want to learn something.

speaking of which, i've been practicing counting with a couple friends of mine (exams just got over yesterday, YAY!), and have realized that i am TERRIBLE. i'm going for my first counting trip (i went once before but couldn't keep the count, so i just matched my friends bets, who was counting, and played BS) in a couple weeks. So yeah, i really want to be able to do a basic hi/low count by then because i'm just itching to throw 50 bucks on the table

basically we've just been taking turns being dealer (dealing a 6 deck shoe). i was dealt 8 shoes so far and have miscounted every single one :sad:
so shld i just keep practicing like tihs?? my BS is perfect, so thats not a prob. the problem comes in when some of my family starts playing hands (they just play the hands randomly, simulating ploppies at a casino). then theres random distractions, cause theres like 8 ppl at my house and then i forget/mess up the count.
so yeah, this has gotten long... but bottom line, whats the best way for me to learn to count in 2 weeks. and don't say practice, i'm doing that, i want the most efficient way to practice.... me and my friend dealing eachother shoes??

sagefr0g · Dec 16, 2006

bluewhale said:

it's 204 sessions and i so far maxed out at $7000 or 1400 units. the image blurred the bars together. kind of had to do that to get the file size limit down to snuff.

bluewhale said:

it took me over six months to get it down but then i'm a slow learner and old to boot.
i'd just work on the basics of counting and stay away from the shoe dealing and play for now.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=15805&postcount=5
also cvb software is excellent for practicing counting

Still Entertainment After All These Years!

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