Table games in Pittsburgh, PA

[BJgenius007]

Today is the first day Pittsburgh casinos have table games. I visited The Meadows at 6 AM. They opened one wing of the two. But from 6 to 6:45, there are only 4 people playing Blackjack, all on tables with ASM. The dealers on tables with CSM have not one single customer. However, that changes at 7:30 AM after I had my free breakfast. Before I left for work, I checked the tables again. Now most tables had 3 or 4 players each, even those with continuous shuffling machine. Bad sign. Unless players reject CSM with their money, casinos will continue to use them. I won almost $300 here.

At 4:30PM after work, I went to check The River Casino. Wow, this one is packed. I was lucky to get a seat but very unlucky at the table. After 30 minutes, I lost $700 and have to go home.

Both casinos have standard rules in this area (S17, DAS, No RSA). The Rivers uses 8 decks while The Meadows uses 6 decks.

 

[farookhbj]

re:

I was reading the gaming commission rules. Apparently, the whole state is mandated to have S17. I haven't been to either yet, but I also heard they all have surrender, as well.

 

[Sharky]

yes, LS.

HORRIBLY slow dealers, not so good pen and too crowded.

 

[Mewtwo]

S17 and LS? Very nice.

 

[ChefJJ]

S17 and LS? Very nice.

Definitely. Any word on pen?

 

[Mewtwo]

If you look in the table games document (the same one that mandates S17 and LS for all blackjack tables) it says that the cut is to be approximately 1/4 of the decks, so I'm going to assume you'll see 75% +/- a few percent one way or the other.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If you look in the table games document (the same one that mandates S17 and LS for all blackjack tables) it says that the cut is to be approximately 1/4 of the decks, so I'm going to assume you'll see 75% +/- a few percent one way or the other.

S17 + LS is a winner. 6/1.5 isn't bad either.

 

[BJgenius007]

80% to 90% depends on dealer.

Definitely. Any word on pen?

Almost all dealers are new. Most of them have difficulty to pick up 8 decks at the same time to put it into the box. So they cut the deck as deep as possible to avoid embarrassing themselves. Last night I saw one dealer played 7+ deck until less than one deck left (90% penetration?). At that table, everybody left with at least two thousand dollars richer. It is $15 table.

The pit boss has no clue. too. There is no heat to the guy alternating his bets on either $10 or $1000. One hundred to one spread. The Rivers Casino of Pittsburgh is the dreamland for all counters. I just don't know how long this will last.

 

[Mewtwo]

Almost all dealers are new. Most of them have difficulty to pick up 8 decks at the same time to put it into the box. So they cut the deck as deep as possible to avoid embarrassing themselves. Last night I saw one dealer played 7+ deck until less than one deck left (90% penetration?). At that table, everybody left with at least two thousand dollars richer. It is $15 table.

The pit boss has no clue. too. There is no heat to the guy alternating his bets on either $10 or $1000. One hundred to one spread. The Rivers Casino of Pittsburgh is the dreamland for all counters. I just don't know how long this will last.

If the play of the ploppies subsidizes and exceeds the money being taken by the counters, then maybe it will be a good while before they start into the anti-counting stuff?

...I read something about two different shoes at the same table. Did they back down on that?

 

[BookerPA]

I've been trying to gather information concerning table games in PA; I live 10 minutes from one and thirty-five from another. I came across a very positive article in one of the Pittsburgh papers.

The following is just a partial quote:

"These Pennsylvania rules are particularly advantageous to players:

• Blackjacks will be paid off at 3-to-2 ($15 for a $10 bet).

• Dealer must stand on soft 17 (for example, a hand of Ace-6).

• Players may double down on any two cards (some sites limit doubling to hands totaling 9, 10 or 11).

• Doubling after splitting pairs is allowed.

• Late surrender is allowed (giving up half your bet after the dealer checks the hole card for a blackjack)"

If anyone is interested, this is a link to the entire article.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/ae/gambling

 

[SBCat]

[QUOTE...I read something about two different shoes at the same table. Did they back down on that?[/QUOTE]

I've been wondering about that too. The "Temporary Table Games Regulations" developed by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board refer to something they call a "double shoe." Here's a link (The blackjack rules are in Chapter 549):

http://www.pgcb.state.pa.us/files/regulations/Temporary_Table_Games_Regulations.pdf

It sounds like, at a minimum, it adds an additional layer of complexity. I've never even heard of them. Anyone ever seen these things before?

 

[kewljason]

In reading through the regulations, the rules do indeed look, what I consider decent with S17 and LS. The only mention of a shuffling machine is the automatic shuffler, not a CSM, which is good. It also specifically states that only 25% of cards should be cut out of play, so I would take that to mean that "half-shoeing would not be possible. The only thing that looks troubling is that mention and description of possible double shoe. By the description looks like there would be 2 dealing shoes on the table with 2 seperate discard racks to keep the cards seperated, but that one round could be dealt from one shoe and the next round dealt from the second shoe. I think I have vaguely heard of this where the color of the last card dealt determines which shoe the next round with be dealt from. Sounds horrible. You would need to keep track of two seperate counts simultaneously. Does anyone have any experinece with these, played with them or even seen them in use?

 

[21forme]

I've backcounted adjacent tables plenty of times. Even counted one I was playing and an adjacent table when they're close enough and the view was not obstructed. Just takes a little practice, and you may want to drop your ace sidecount in that circumstance.

 

[BJgenius007]

In reading through the regulations, the rules do indeed look, what I consider decent with S17 and LS. The only mention of a shuffling machine is the automatic shuffler, not a CSM, which is good. It also specifically states that only 25% of cards should be cut out of play, so I would take that to mean that "half-shoeing would not be possible. The only thing that looks troubling is that mention and description of possible double shoe. By the description looks like there would be 2 dealing shoes on the table with 2 separate discard racks to keep the cards separated, but that one round could be dealt from one shoe and the next round dealt from the second shoe. I think I have vaguely heard of this where the color of the last card dealt determines which shoe the next round with be dealt from. Sounds horrible. You would need to keep track of two separate counts simultaneously. Does anyone have any experience with these, played with them or even seen them in use?

I have checked both The Rivers and The Meadows. Both have automatic shuffle machines and continuous shuffle machines. I will say it is 50% and 50% although CSM are less used when there are no heavy crowd.

I also think, although two racks of shoes are in the book of PA regulation, they will never implement it because people could easily go to Wheeling Island for better games.

 

[Albee]

Don't bother

I have checked both The Rivers and The Meadows. Both have automatic shuffle machines and continuous shuffle machines. I will say it is 50% and 50% although CSM are less used when there are no heavy crowd.

I also although two racks of shoes are in the book, I think they will never implement it because people could easily go to Wheeling Island for better games.

The games in Meadows and Rivers blow away anything that WV offers....by far. WV=8 deck PA=6 deck with great pen. It's a no brainer.

 

[Mewtwo]

I was there (Rivers) tonight blowing some comps and playing BJ with the profits.

Many of the $15 tables use CSMs.
All $25 tables I've seen use ASMs at the end of each shoe.
High-limit room ($100+) is all hand-shuffle.

At the lower tables they will call out "black action" on black chip bets but not green chip bets totaling over $100. They also call out on any odd plays (e.g. hard dobuling on a 12.)

Pen varies by dealer. I've noticed 75% +/- a little in the main pit...some dealers in the HL room are at this, though one (if anyone wants to PM me for info) consistently gives 90% pen.

They have no mid-shoe entry on all their HL games, I believe.


The dealers at the lower rates obviously are new and still getting things straight - I sat one shoe at a $25 table and the dealer exposed his hole card twice and pushed on what was a player loss.

I wasn't doing any counting (I'm not good enough), though even the ploppies were lowering their bets after a very large number of Aces came out in a single hand, and I'm talking the drunk guy who was standing on 12v10 and the idiot who doubled 10v10.

Oh, and there was not even a hint of any of that "double shoe" business that was in the temporary table games document.

 

[BJgenius007]

I was there (Rivers) tonight blowing some comps and playing BJ with the profits.


Oh, and there was not even a hint of any of that "double shoe" business that was in the temporary table games document.

I began to think the double shoes is just a misunderstanding. It is just one shoe in automatic shuffle machine and the other shoe in playing.

 

[Sharky]

If the play of the ploppies subsidizes and exceeds the money being taken by the counters, then maybe it will be a good while before they start into the anti-counting stuff?

was there Fri night...what a ZOO!!! Didn't play, too crowded for my taste, left after 30 mins of observation. they use 8 deck shoes so I am not sure about the 6 deck game.

did see a plop double a 12 vs 10 cat pulled an 8, so he knew something that I didn't. :laugh:

so the ploppies will subsidize my play.

 

[Sharky]

CP,

BASH in the Burg'?

Seems like a GREAT loc for the next one.

4 casinos w/in 1 hr. drive.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

The "double shoe" mentioned in the regulations is not required by PA law. Rather, casinos have the option to use it if they want. I doubt any PA casino will ever use the device.