Taking the Battle to the High Seas

C

CarnivalsEnd

Member
#1
#1
Howdy! I'm somewhat of a newb, but do understand basic bj strategy. Was hoping you guys would help point me in the right direct to make my upcoming honeymoon a treat instead of a credit nightmare.

My background, I've always been a wizard at math, so i fell right into counting cards. I've practiced now for a few weeks, and finally put the "rubber to the road" so to speak this last weekend. The end result was I ended up doubling my $500 in about 2 hours on a 6 deck shoe (probably more thanks to dumb luck than anything else)

In 2 weeks, we'll be honeymooning on a nice long cruise. From what I hear, they have BJ setup as follows:

Atlantic City rules were followed. To be specific: eight decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double any first two cards, double after split allowed, no surrender, dealer always peeks for blackjack, and re-split to at least four hands. The house edge under these rules is 0.43%. The betting limits were $5 to $200 at most tables and $10 to $300 at another table, which I never saw open. One game had the Wheel of Madness side bet, for bets of $1 to $5.

So I guess I'm asking how to take the cruise ship for all its worth :eyepatch:

Learning a new system won't be a problem, so I'm looking for experienced players to tell me which system they've used to make their advantage over the house the greatest. I've been using blackjack mentor to monitor my play, and I'm making the correct decisions about 95% of the time.

Thanks for the advice on the best counting system to use :)
 
S

Shwam

Active Member
#2
#2
I would just start with something simple such as basic Hi/Lo.

It is Verryyy difficult to 'take a casino for alot' with $500-$1000. ROR is probably like ... VERY high.
 
B

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Hi-Lo or KO would be the way to go IMHO, but I have a sneaking suspicion the penetration would make the game tough to beat. I could be wrong, maybe they offer good pen! But I doubt it.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Please clarify something.
You start by saying you will be taking a cruise in a few weeks.You hear they have the following rules. Then you say that you never saw the $10-$300 table open.
Making the right play 95% of the time is weak. Very weak.
Enjoy your honeymoon and forget about trying to take the ships vault.
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
what system did you use to double your $500 in two hours? just BS? you mentioned youve been practicing for a few weeks - what system? use that one as you already have it 95% down.

as the roch put it, improve on that 95%. shouldnt be hard to get up to 100%!

most important thing though, which leads me to believe you are not ready to REALLY play - what is the pen like on the ship? you made no mention of penetration, which will most affect the game. if its like most cruise ships, the pen is horrible, probably 50-60% (maaaaaybe 70% but i doubt it) for an 8D shoe. if that is the case, the game is a waste of your time in terms of counting, so just have fun playing BS. OR, since you are there on your honeymoon, pay some attention to your wife....
 
C

CarnivalsEnd

Member
#6
#6
I've been working on a basic hi/lo system. With the help of this blackjack auditing software, I'm hoping to bump my play up to 100% right all of the time. The question in my mind is what is the right play sometimes. Obviously, if you're at a count something rediculously lopsided like +15 or something like that, and the dealer has an 2 or 3 showing, and you're sitting on a 2 or 3 as well, I'm assuming the correct play would be to not take the hit at that point. Meaning what is considered the "correct play" will vary based on your count.

I am debating going to the red 7 count and keeping a side "count" with letters for the aces. Reason being, this is almost exactly the same count that I have been doing. It will be easier than learning a new system, and I can focus on getting my decision making up to 100% correct as opposed to the 95% I'm at right now.

:cool2:
 
jack.jackson

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
CarnivalsEnd said:
I've been working on a basic hi/lo system. With the help of this blackjack auditing software, I'm hoping to bump my play up to 100% right all of the time. The question in my mind is what is the right play sometimes. Obviously, if you're at a count something rediculously lopsided like +15 or something like that, and the dealer has an 2 or 3 showing, and you're sitting on a 2 or 3 as well, I'm assuming the correct play would be to not take the hit at that point. Meaning what is considered the "correct play" will vary based on your count.

I am debating going to the red 7 count and keeping a side "count" with letters for the aces. Reason being, this is almost exactly the same count that I have been doing. It will be easier than learning a new system, and I can focus on getting my decision making up to 100% correct as opposed to the 95% I'm at right now.

:cool2:
Click to expand...

Since, a 2 or 3, would mean AA or A2, I assume you meant, 12 and 13?

If so, you would want to stand around a TC of +2
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
CarnivalsEnd said:
I've been working on a basic hi/lo system. With the help of this blackjack auditing software, I'm hoping to bump my play up to 100% right all of the time. The question in my mind is what is the right play sometimes. Obviously, if you're at a count something rediculously lopsided like +15 or something like that, and the dealer has an 2 or 3 showing, and you're sitting on a 2 or 3 as well, I'm assuming the correct play would be to not take the hit at that point. Meaning what is considered the "correct play" will vary based on your count.

I am debating going to the red 7 count and keeping a side "count" with letters for the aces. Reason being, this is almost exactly the same count that I have been doing. It will be easier than learning a new system, and I can focus on getting my decision making up to 100% correct as opposed to the 95% I'm at right now.

:cool2:
Click to expand...
if you have been working with hi/lo and can do deck estimation and TC conversion just fine, then i would say stick with that instead of going to red 7. have you been doing this stuff ok?

how have you been betting with the count?

what you need to learn are indices. see the FAQs at the top of the card counting section of this forum for explanations about these. but they are what you are looking for to tell you when to deviate from basic strategy.

also, you still have not answered the question about penetration.
 
Traveller

Traveller

Active Member
#10
#10
CarnivalsEnd said:
Was hoping you guys would help point me in the right direct to make my upcoming honeymoon a treat :)
Click to expand...
Yeah dude, i somehow think that it is not the casino that you should be focussing on F******* :laugh:
 
C

CarnivalsEnd

Member
#13
#13
Blue Efficacy said:
Hi-Lo or KO would be the way to go IMHO, but I have a sneaking suspicion the penetration would make the game tough to beat. I could be wrong, maybe they offer good pen! But I doubt it.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I've never played before on carnival (or any other for that matter)...if they don't offer good penetration then it would be a feat to walk away with anything since they are already dealing from an 8 deck shoe.:whip:
 
C

CarnivalsEnd

Member
#14
#14
rukus said:
what system did you use to double your $500 in two hours? just BS? you mentioned youve been practicing for a few weeks - what system? use that one as you already have it 95% down.

as the roch put it, improve on that 95%. shouldnt be hard to get up to 100%!

most important thing though, which leads me to believe you are not ready to REALLY play - what is the pen like on the ship? you made no mention of penetration, which will most affect the game. if its like most cruise ships, the pen is horrible, probably 50-60% (maaaaaybe 70% but i doubt it) for an 8D shoe. if that is the case, the game is a waste of your time in terms of counting, so just have fun playing BS. OR, since you are there on your honeymoon, pay some attention to your wife....
Click to expand...
I hear you, and you make a very valid point...she enjoys BJ too and will be counting along with me when we aren't...you know :whip:, and a little of :gaga:, oh and a little of :band2:

:D
 
C

CarnivalsEnd

Member
#15
#15
rukus said:
if you have been working with hi/lo and can do deck estimation and TC conversion just fine, then i would say stick with that instead of going to red 7. have you been doing this stuff ok?

how have you been betting with the count?

what you need to learn are indices. see the FAQs at the top of the card counting section of this forum for explanations about these. but they are what you are looking for to tell you when to deviate from basic strategy.

also, you still have not answered the question about penetration.
Click to expand...
Hence the reason I said my first run was probably just dumb luck. The smartest thing I did was leave when I was up $1025 over the $500 I brought in. I looked at my buddies and said, "Get me outta this casino before I blow this money!"

I haven't been betting with the count, I just new the count made certain cards more likely to appear than others, and adjusted my play according to the count. (I guess in a way I was unknowingly playing indicies)

The cruise line is Carnival. Sounds like they give some good benefits when it comes to spliting and doubling down, but sh#tty when it comes to number of decks and probably also penetration due to the number of decks.

I'm not sure if I should look for third base to be open at a table with a lot of players or if I should look for tables where i can go heads up against the dealer, and maximize my advantage as the cards are depleted from the shoe?

More players means "possibly" going deeper in the shoe, but also promises a harder count.

If I play with one or maybe 2 players at the table or even heads up against the dealer, its an easier count, and if they reshuffle the deck at the same point as they would with more players at the table, it maximizes my advantage.

Which table would you play at? Full table or lite table?
 
A

actuary

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Just wanted to add that the wheel of madness bet is beatable. You'll need to figure out the average win in order to figure out the exact TC needed to start playing the side bet, though. You might be able to get this by asking the pit boss.

The wizard has a brief analysis of the side bet here: http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix8.html#wheelofmadness

Playing the bet might also be good cover.

I cruise often, but don't bother with the casino, mostly because I'm afraid what they might do if they catch me counting. I know in Canada and the US, the laws will protect me, but I'm not sure if such laws exist at sea.
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
CarnivalsEnd said:
I haven't been betting with the count, I just new the count made certain cards more likely to appear than others, and adjusted my play according to the count. (I guess in a way I was unknowingly playing indicies)
Click to expand...
baaaad idea. i think you would be surprised how far off you might be from what the real indices would say to do. also, playing a shoe, without varying bets by count, you are not gaining an advantage. so you are correct, that first run was a bout of good luck! enjoy it!

CarnivalsEnd said:
The cruise line is Carnival. Sounds like they give some good benefits when it comes to spliting and doubling down, but sh#tty when it comes to number of decks and probably also penetration due to the number of decks.
Click to expand...
probably correct here about # decks/pen. so much so, that it usually doesnt pay to try and count the shoes on these things.

CarnivalsEnd said:
I'm not sure if I should look for third base to be open at a table with a lot of players or if I should look for tables where i can go heads up against the dealer, and maximize my advantage as the cards are depleted from the shoe?

More players means "possibly" going deeper in the shoe, but also promises a harder count.

If I play with one or maybe 2 players at the table or even heads up against the dealer, its an easier count, and if they reshuffle the deck at the same point as they would with more players at the table, it maximizes my advantage.

Which table would you play at? Full table or lite table?
Click to expand...
more players at a table wont really get you better penetration. you will go past the cut card more often, but it will most likely come DURING a round of play, not allowing you to capitalize by betting big if the opportunity arose. seeing an extra 4 cards while sitting at third base on a full table, given the # decks/penetration on these boats will most likely add nothing to your advantage.

given that i think these games are probably worthless, i would say play BS, sit at a full table to play as little hands as possible, and enjoy the time chatting with your new bride. nto sure if that was the recommendation you were looking for :devil:
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#18
#18
CarnivalsEnd said:
Howdy! I'm somewhat of a newb, but do understand basic bj strategy. Was hoping you guys would help point me in the right direct to make my upcoming honeymoon a treat instead of a credit nightmare.

My background, I've always been a wizard at math, so i fell right into counting cards. I've practiced now for a few weeks, and finally put the "rubber to the road" so to speak this last weekend. The end result was I ended up doubling my $500 in about 2 hours on a 6 deck shoe (probably more thanks to dumb luck than anything else)

In 2 weeks, we'll be honeymooning on a nice long cruise. From what I hear, they have BJ setup as follows:

Atlantic City rules were followed. To be specific: eight decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double any first two cards, double after split allowed, no surrender, dealer always peeks for blackjack, and re-split to at least four hands. The house edge under these rules is 0.43%. The betting limits were $5 to $200 at most tables and $10 to $300 at another table, which I never saw open. One game had the Wheel of Madness side bet, for bets of $1 to $5.

So I guess I'm asking how to take the cruise ship for all its worth :eyepatch:

Learning a new system won't be a problem, so I'm looking for experienced players to tell me which system they've used to make their advantage over the house the greatest. I've been using blackjack mentor to monitor my play, and I'm making the correct decisions about 95% of the time.

Thanks for the advice on the best counting system to use :)
Click to expand...
Its a little different on a ship - when the captain says "I want that friggin counter off the property NOW!" zg
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
a pirates view

You have me a little confuse on your intro like shadroch said but what the heck. First the rules aren't bad but they have csms on alot of the ships I've been on. They may have one hand shuffled and dealt like the wheel of madness. Most of the hand dealt shoes are 15-25min so you would have to carry a sizeable bankroll for the games. I played and caught heat right off the bat on one ship so good like trying to take them for everything they are worth. Most of the people on the ship are drinking their asses off and are too drunk to play right so you may put on a good drunk act and seem lucky. Good luck playing and don't mysteriously fall overboard like some people do. blackchipjim
 
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