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  1. zengrifter

    zengrifter Banned

    Misinterpretation of my points?
    Sarcasm over played.

    I never suggested that book profits were a primary driver. Clearly, with a mercurial person like ExCAA profits are secondary at best.

    Obviously Lonesome would likely not have most of the info were it not for THE BOOK, and same applies for me and everyone else when it comes to card-counting books.

    But I have mostly raised the question repeatedly: Why was this book of secrets and advanced knowledge even published? I doubt it was for financial gain. zg
  2. Zg

    I believe the Psychological reasons that have been discussed are very plausible, trumping the monetary motive.

    I have to wonder, is JG, "Tulip"? (Sounds sorta feminine to me).

    Any thought on that Z-Man? Has JG ever had a fondness for flowers?

  3. zengrifter

    zengrifter Banned

    We had best tip toe through THOSE tulips, Brother Panther. zg
  4. Sucker

    Sucker Well-Known Member

    Who has gained from the publication of this book?

    1) The author.
    **(a)Financially: Massive -EV.
    **(b)Fame: Massive +EV.

    **(a)Game Protection: Huge +EV.
    **(b)Proliferation of APs: -EV, but no where NEAR enough to make up for the game protection aspect.

    3) People who are APs BECAUSE of the book: For the ones that have done their homework; HUGE +EV. These are the people who are - or at least SHOULD be - thanking their lucky stars for their discovery of this book. These are the people who think that ZG and other people's criticism of the book is nothing more than sour grapes. I fully expect many of these people to take issue with the points I'm making. I don't blame these people for feeling this way; if I were in this category I would feel the same way!

    4) Long time established pros: Massive -EV. These are the people who have been hurt the worst, and have gained NOTHING. In this world there are only so many rainbows with pots of gold; there are now 10 times as many people with which to share the gold. And yes; according to the author there always WILL be advantages, but why would you want to PURPOSELY destroy the existing ones?
    ** There's nothing new under the sun. The simple fact is; there is NOTHING in that book that wasn't already known by most of the long-time established pros. There are probably a hundred or more people who COULD have written the book, but chose NOT to; for the reasons given above, and/or even more IMPORTANTLY, did not wish to betray the people who taught these moves to THEM - IN THE STRICTEST CONFIDENCE!
  5. Sucker

    Sucker Well-Known Member

    Funny you should mention that. As I was reading the original post to this thread, I couldn't help but notice the similarity in the writing styles.
  6. Sucker

    and with the obvious true intent of the non-edited original post, and his past practices, a possibility, and in relation to other info I care not to divulge on this site, (but will very soon in the physical presence of other AP's.)

    I, and many others, would also like to thank the Mods for quick action in having the original "cleansed".:cool:

  7. Lonesome Gambler

    Lonesome Gambler Well-Known Member

    Good grief, you of all people... I'm unfortunately beginning to expect this kind of nonsense from CP (whose continued willingness to pretend that he didn't notice my previous posts in this thread is either seriously pathetic or highly troubling), but I'm surprised that you would so readily jump on the crazy train.

    As for your previous post, I agree with just about everything you said. I'm one of those APs who has done his homework and has benefited greatly from the book. I have never met JG, and I have no direct contact with him; as such, I have no informed opinion of him as a person one way or another. I do think he's a great writer and a player with a rare combination of theoretical and practical skills (the ability to figure out how to beat a game, analyze it at a high level, and actually apply the data in a live, dynamic casino environment is not a common one); as to his personality, I have no opinion, nor do I think it matters much in this context.

    You also mentioned people that see ZG's constant pseudo-jabs at JG as being mere sour grapes—I imagine that I'm one of the people you're referring to. I don't think that ZG's intentions really have anything to do with his concern for the quality of today's games, and as such have little to do with the point you make. Anyone with even the most basic critical thinking ability (I apologize if that sounds condescending; that's not my intention) will see straight through his completely transparent façade.

    For most of the rest of stuff in this thread, all I can say is that I'm starting to understand why the talent pool in this forum has thinned exponentially in the last few years. It's a shame.
  8. Lg

    I would kindly ask you to be very, very careful in the way you have been referring to me in your posts. As you know I have always treated you with respect and helped you with info at those times when you requested it. You repay me now by showing me great disrespect, not wise.

    We both know what the real issue is here, and it is very narrow and very limited. We have had private discussions concerning that very serious issue, that you and another are for sure involved in. Hopefully I will learn who the third one is, you know, but will not say.

    As to the last two paragraphs in your latest post,, yes, they are very condescending, and insulting to many here, I am sure,,,but then again you have made it rather clear, you really are,, (in your own estimation),special.:)

    Happy Holidays,
  9. Sucker

    Sucker Well-Known Member

    :laugh: I didn't mean to imply that I actually BELIEVED it. But I must admit that for a minute the thought DID cross my mind, what with the pedantic and slightly abrasive writing style! :p
  10. zengrifter

    zengrifter Banned

    I feel so exposed. You got me!! :laugh:
    Yes, but other than Brother Monkey who's gone? (I wish Syph would visit more often) zg
  11. Wookets

    Wookets Well-Known Member

    The author himself, for starters
  12. KenSmith

    KenSmith Administrator Staff Member

    We've lost a lot of knowledgeable posters. And who could blame them. Flame fests and trolls kill anyone's desire to participate.
  13. zengrifter

    zengrifter Banned

    ExhibitCAA was only around for a short time and he started attacking and name-calling that was wholly inappropriate. Who else? zg
  14. Sonny

    Sonny Well-Known Member

    Oh man, the two posts above are just too perfect not to laugh! First the set-up, then the punchline. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

  15. BrianCP

    BrianCP Well-Known Member

    From my point of view, it seems to be the senior members that do all the fighting. You guys aren't really the ones who could stand to benefit the most from this forum, you are already making a living or capable of making a living at blackjack.

    This forum really helps people who want to learn to be the best AP they can be with advice from people who have already made it. Advice regarding playable games, bet spreads, camo, counting systems, and the math of the game is incredibly invaluable to a member like me. Having the senior members leave due to infighting only hurts new users and users who benefit from their advice.
  16. Lonesome Gambler

    Lonesome Gambler Well-Known Member

    CP, I've addressed you directly in PMs and in this thread, and you've chosen to flat out ignore my very straightforward answers to your questions. Your posts in this thread and in PMs range from baffling to outright threatening. In fact, unless I'm grossly misinterpreting your tone, the threat of actual physical violence is implied in at least one of your posts in this thread. I've never directed any disrespect toward you in the past as you've been kind to me and have in fact been helpful and hospitable, but you've recently made it abundantly clear that:

    a) you have no interest in being diplomatic in this situation
    b) you are completely unwilling to listen to anything I have to say about the situation
    c) you are willing to openly insult myself and others with accusations of elitism and condescension, but then you refuse to address rebuttals, even ones written politely and with respect
    d) you are willing to imply the threat of violence to APs who you feel have slighted you

    Maybe you should be more careful in the way that you speak to others on the forum. I won't attempt to intimidate you or anyone with warnings to be "very careful," as I have no interest in projecting a falsely tough image, but if you're not careful, you'll continue to lose credibility with posts like these.

    I try to be fair and understanding when it comes to this stuff, as creating bad blood in this business is bad for everyone. But my tolerance threshold only goes so high, especially when I've made several good-faith efforts to communicate in a diplomatic sense, both privately and in the open.

    By the way, your attempts to lump me in with the current situation are misdirected. I'm only an observer. But you've made several accusations throughout this thread that I can confidently contradict; you've chosen to not only ignore me, but to add me to your list of suspects in the process!
  17. Lonesome Gambler

    Lonesome Gambler Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, this has happened at all of the forums at one time or another. AP, BJF, BJ21, and now BJInfo.

    There are still plenty of valuable posts around, especially on the latter two sites, but petty in-fighting has certainly decreased the value of the dialogue greatly. I don't consider myself to be a great or highly-knowledgeable player, but I try to help out when I can.

    This forum was instrumental in helping me to become a serious player, so although I hold no pretense of being a "real pro" (there you go ZG, we all get the reference), I do like to chime in when I feel like I have something valuable to contribute. Unfortunately, I also get wrapped up in ridiculous drama on occasion. It's usually easy to ignore, but when it has a highly negative effect on the quality of already-fragile games, I can't help myself.
  18. Sucker

    Sucker Well-Known Member

    When I was a little boy, and would get in an argument with my brothers; my mom would separate us for a time. Perhaps you could think of a way to implement something similar.

    These little petty spats DO get very distracting and sometimes are a real thread-killer. And they always seem to spring up just as the thread is getting to it's most informative stage.:(
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