The Counter's M.O.

[Southpaw]

Hello all, I seek insight on the practicality of my modus operandi for counting cards. Clearly the method I have been practicing for a while now is inferior to the one I most commonly hear of. The method I most often hear that people use is to count the dealer's up-card first (once the first round has been dealt) and then move from 1st to 3rd base counting the pairs, cancelling when possible. This method is desirable because one's eyes (or head for that matter!) never follows the dealer's hand.

The method I have been practicing is somewhat of a derivative of this. What I have been doing is looking away while the dealer deals everyone their first card. Then I begin counting in pairs, cancelling when applicable, as everyone gets their second card, hence counting the dealer's up card last. If you've read some of my posts, you'd know that I haven't played for real yet, though I have gone to a local store to practice backcounting. When in a live casino, looking away while everyone gets their first card usually equates to turning around, turning my attention to an adjacent table, looking down, looking across the pit and etc.

I'd of course like to switch to the method I first described, but before considering this, I'd like input as to how relatively inferior the method I've been using is. Obviously were I to use the first method, I'd be able to gaze in another direction than the cards for a longer period of time.

I have the dealer speed cranked up quite a bit on CVBJ and never miss a card when using the method I've been using, but when I try to do the common method, I sometimes do miss a card. However, I feel that I could probably pull off the common method in live play, for the deal speed at my local store was much slower than what I've been accustomed to through CVBJ. But then again, it is also possible that my local store just has some of the slowest dealers in the world.

So, how imperative do some of you experts feel it is that I change my modus operandi?

On a side note, I don't really care to hear the complaints of why I haven't "gotten my feet wet" yet, so say what you will, I'll probably read it, but likely won't respond to it (especially since zg is temporarily banned, and I think he was one of the only people that sided with me on this earlier).

SP

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

It's just a matter of what you're comfortable with. I always count using the method that you use—start counting when the second cards are being dealt and count the dealer's up-card last. I don't need to move my head much to do this, and most players do this anyway to see what other players were dealt. Often, I'm sitting at first base, which doesn't require me to move my head at all. I've played against some lightning-fast dealers, and it hasn't affected me negatively, in my opinion.

 

[cardenorders]

I myself also prefer first base as it is easy to see all the cards without the typewriter rotation at that spot. Also true at third but in my experience third base gets a bit more attention.

Sounds to me like you're at the point where you've just got to give it a try and see what works for you. You can practice at home endlessly (not a bad thing!) but you'll have to see for yourself what random distractions impact your game, if any.

By the way I also tend to look around aimlessly, pretend (or not, lol) to be distracted by a waitress or some such nonsense in particular if I notice that a PC seems to be hanging around. I've had to just strike up a conversation with them at times just to get rid of them, if that makes any sense.

Good luck to you!

 

[Canceler]

It's just a matter of what you're comfortable with.

I agree.

I do it the way Lonesome Gambler described, except I don’t count any of the dealer’s cards until after she has played out her hand.* (Although, if I’m contemplating an index play, I’ll temporarily include the up card in the count. I don’t “really” count it until I see all the dealer’s cards, though.)

*This prevents confusion as to which dealer card I’ve already counted, and makes it easier to use canceling.

 

[creeping panther]

Sp

Hello all, I seek insight on the practicality of my modus operandi for counting cards. Clearly the method I have been practicing for a while now is inferior to the one I most commonly hear of. The method I most often hear that people use is to count the dealer's up-card first (once the first round has been dealt) and then move from 1st to 3rd base counting the pairs, cancelling when possible. This method is desirable because one's eyes (or head for that matter!) never follows the dealer's hand.

The method I have been practicing is somewhat of a derivative of this. What I have been doing is looking away while the dealer deals everyone their first card. Then I begin counting in pairs, cancelling when applicable, as everyone gets their second card, hence counting the dealer's up card last. If you've read some of my posts, you'd know that I haven't played for real yet, though I have gone to a local store to practice backcounting. When in a live casino, looking away while everyone gets their first card usually equates to turning around, turning my attention to an adjacent table, looking down, looking across the pit and etc.

I'd of course like to switch to the method I first described, but before considering this, I'd like input as to how relatively inferior the method I've been using is. Obviously were I to use the first method, I'd be able to gaze in another direction than the cards for a longer period of time.

I have the dealer speed cranked up quite a bit on CVBJ and never miss a card when using the method I've been using, but when I try to do the common method, I sometimes do miss a card. However, I feel that I could probably pull off the common method in live play, for the deal speed at my local store was much slower than what I've been accustomed to through CVBJ. But then again, it is also possible that my local store just has some of the slowest dealers in the world.

So, how imperative do some of you experts feel it is that I change my modus operandi?

On a side note, I don't really care to hear the complaints of why I haven't "gotten my feet wet" yet, so say what you will, I'll probably read it, but likely won't respond to it (especially since zg is temporarily banned, and I think he was one of the only people that sided with me on this earlier).

SP

You shall very soon be getting your feet wet in a big way!!:toast:

CP

 

[Southpaw]

You shall very soon be getting your feet wet in a big way!!:toast:CP

CP,

I wish there was a "like" button, per the concept of facebook. I would definitely be clicking it for your comment.

SP

 

[Southpaw]

Hmmm ... so I see more people here than I thought begin counting as players receive their second card, as I do, thus making the dealer's up card last. Perhaps I will just stick to the method I've become accustomed to and make sure that I pick up a seat near the end.

SP

 

[paddywhack]

It really doesn't matter where you sit or how you scan the cards

It really doesn't matter where you sit or how you scan the cards. Just be consistent.

I prefer to sit at third base or first base, mainly because I like my elbow room. But it's not hard to count from any location at the table. You may have to turn a little but it doesn't all have to be a lot nor does it have to be really noticeable and you can do it gradually. And besides, we're all rooting each other on and I'm checking out my neighbors cards to wish him good luck on his double trouble or whatever.

Wish you luck on your swim!!

paddy

 

[superyoungg]

I count the same way that you do (wait until all the cards are dealt and start at first base), except that when I see an opportunity to use the dealer's up card to cancel with one of the player's cards, I take that into consideration. Otherwise, the dealer's up card is typically counted last. This method has done quite well for me for all ten or so hours that I've put into at my local store. Lol.

Also, I typically sit towards the middle of the table.

That said, my opinion on the matter is that trying to rigidly stick to a specific M.O. when counting cards may eventually hinder your ability to accurately keep count, especially given the many unforseen variables that are likely to occur at any given store (especially the ones with party pits and smoking hot dealers).

Honestly, I believe you need to just go and play. I'd bet that once you're sitting at a table and actually playing, especially given the amount of practice you seem to be putting in, keeping count will not be any trouble for you at all. That's how it was for me, at least.

Just my two cents - take it for what you will. I'm nowhere near being a seasoned AP (yet) but this is still speaking from (limited) experience. And I figure you might like hearing from another AP in training like myself.

youngg