the stratospheres BJ machine that dont shuffle til after 2/3 of the decks dealt

kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#81
#81
Automatic Monkey said:
Maybe, maybe not. The Sands in PA has Shufflemaster BJ machines that are similar to the ones you lost all your money on, except that they shuffle after each round, so counting has no effect. Up to 5 players play against the same dealer hand, so assuming the cards are coming out of a shoe the normal way the actions of each player will affect the outcome of the hand for all, just in a way that cannot be predetermined.

The only way to prevent one player's play from affecting the game for others is to randomly predetermine the sequence of cards each player (including the dealer) will receive. The machine allows one split and has a 7-card Charlie rule, so the most cards a player can receive is 14. Thus the software can be programmed such that player 1 will receive cards 1-14, player 2 will receive cards 15-28, and so on. This would require the shoe to be shuffled after every round, so I suspect this is how these machines operate. As long as the shuffle is random and the set of cards each player will receive is determined randomly, it is an honest blackjack game.
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I live in pa, but must admit I haven't checked out the Pa casinos as by law they don't have live blackjack (or any table games) but my understanding of the law is that each players bank of cars is seperate, meaning each player has a sepearte shoe. No?
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#82
#82
something rotten in PA

is it just me or is something doesn't make sense about this Shufflemaster game in PA?
first off, let me say i've seen these shufflemaster games in other states that allow table games.
at one joint the machine states it shuffles after every round.
at another joint the machine states it shuffles after 2/3's of a six deck pack is dealt.
one joint the game is set up for $3 min and h17
another joint it's set up for $5 min and s17.

what ever, back to the shufflemaster game in PA, which i've never seen.
something seems really weird, i mean the idea that say you have more than one player against this dealer who is showing a up card and a down card to those more than one players and eventually showing the down card and maybe drawing more cards which all the players see.
well, doesn't that raise the question of how could each player be dealt cards from their own individual six deck pack of cards before a 2/3 deep shuffle? i mean i don't see how that could be done unless the dealer also has her own individual six deck pack of cards as well. :confused::whip:

so but, also that raises the question of what's going on in states where table games are legal. i mean is there just one six deck pack of cards for the dealer and all the players or is it each player, dealer included has their own pack of cards that they are receiving from?:confused::whip:

what ever, if that sort of thing is going on in states where table games are legal it almost seems to me it would be fraud for the casino to do it.
:flame::whip:
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#83
#83
kewljason said:
... my understanding of the law is that each players bank of cars is seperate, meaning each player has a sepearte shoe.
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Yes.

The dealer also has his separate virtual shoe.

If you were lucky enough to sit at the 5-seat Shufflemaster TMS-300 (I think) machine when they first threw the switch, 36 virtual decks were in play - 6D for each seat plus the dealer.
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#84
#84
sagefr0g said:
first off, let me say i've seen these shufflemaster games in other states that allow table games....
what ever, back to the shufflemaster game in PA, which i've never seen.
so but, also that raises the question of what's going on in states where table games are legal. i mean is there just one six deck pack of cards for the dealer and all the players or is it each player, dealer included has their own pack of cards that they are receiving from?:confused::whip:

what ever, if that sort of thing is going on in states where table games are legal it almost seems to me it would be fraud for the casino to do it.
:flame::whip:
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I've never seen or played one of these games in PA either lol.

A State defines the game and what's allowed.

All Nevada casinos are required to do is have a min 70%(?) payback for slot machines. They are not required to inform you of the specific payback of a specific machine as far as I know. If a casino advertises outside on its Marquis in letters of a size and color that would make The Flash envious "99%
Payback on Slots" all that may be required is for it to have 2 machines that actually have that payback. I think, not sure, if you ask, they are rquired to tell you which 2 machines they actually are.

In Nevada, that actually allows table games, apparently it's still legal to call both a 6-5, 8D, No DAS, No re-splits, D10 only or a 3-2, DOA, DAS 1D "Blackjack" if they want as if calling either "Blackjack" meant it's the same thing.

What may be "law" in one "State" may be "fraud" in another "State" as you say.
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#85
#85
Kasi said:
I've never seen or played one of these games in PA either lol.

A State defines the game and what's allowed.

All Nevada casinos are required to do is have a min 70%(?) payback for slot machines. They are not required to inform you of the specific payback of a specific machine as far as I know. If a casino advertises outside on its Marquis in letters of a size and color that would make The Flash envious "99%
Payback on Slots" all that may be required is for it to have 2 machines that actually have that payback. I think, not sure, if you ask, they are rquired to tell you which 2 machines they actually are.

In Nevada, that actually allows table games, apparently it's still legal to call both a 6-5, 8D, No DAS, No re-splits, D10 only or a 3-2, DOA, DAS 1D "Blackjack" if they want as if calling either "Blackjack" meant it's the same thing.

What may be "law" in one "State" may be "fraud" in another "State" as you say.
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yeah lol, i guess i'm just getting all 'hot under the collar' over the confusion, i mean heck they can state something on the machine and vague as the statement is apparently all kind of things can really be the case that who in the world would ever imagine.
and really as far as some law in one state or another, lol i wouldn't really have the foggiest. God only knows how many pages of gobbly goop legalize one would have to read and still be scratching ones head over it, i guess. :rolleyes::whip:
geeze at least with physical table games one can see what's really there.
 
S

sevencard2003

Well-Known Member
#86
#86
well the stratosphere no longer has this machine, but riviera and the LV club does and the western camisura, and im convinced those are the 3 best casinos to play at. so does the nugget but they wont give u any slot points, but i finally convinced them to put a sign on their machines stating this.

binions got rid of the good bj machine and replaced it with one paying 6-5. so i no longer play it at binions. am doing alot better on them VBJ machines now that i realize u cant count the cards. they all pay out over 100% if comps and cashback are included, as long as it pays 3-2 and gives out comps and cashback. not all casinos do. (for example the gold spike--where u cant use a players card in the machine).

updates of others experiences would be appreciated.
 
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