Tough times for LV
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Automatic Monkey
Banned
And the thing is, you know how the casinos are going to respond: more 6:5 tables! Instead of trying to attract and keep new visitors, just squeeze the last penny out of the suckers who continue to come.
Oh and serve lower quality food and liquor, while charging more for it. That'll make up the shortfall. Anyone dumb enough to play 6:5 will be dumb enough to pay $30 for a prison-quality entree.
Oh and serve lower quality food and liquor, while charging more for it. That'll make up the shortfall. Anyone dumb enough to play 6:5 will be dumb enough to pay $30 for a prison-quality entree.
mjbballar23
Well-Known Member
I also think we will see more 6:5 and possibly the removal of blackjack tables for slot machines or other carnival games and possibly spanish 21. However, once vegas has sucked all the money from its remaining customers, those last customers will be gone as well. I truely think that at some point the pendulum will have to swing back toward more favorable rules at some point if vegas wants to remain the mecca of gambling.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
a columnist in the review-journal had a nice theory for why vegas today might not be as "recession-proof" as it was thought.
In the old days, not many people gambled. Those that did were true degenerates.
Nowadays, it's much more socially acceptable to gamble, and plenty of people do it. However, many of these normal people are not degenerate, so they'll actually cut back in tough times.
In the old days, not many people gambled. Those that did were true degenerates.
Nowadays, it's much more socially acceptable to gamble, and plenty of people do it. However, many of these normal people are not degenerate, so they'll actually cut back in tough times.
bj bob
Well-Known Member
So where does that leave us poor bastards?
I'm not so sure, despite the Convention and Visitors' Bureau advertising campaigns. "In one [ad], called 'The Dangers of Thinking,' an announcer urges the audience to 'do without thinking. Do Vegas right now.'" Yeah, Nevada state law, check your guns and your brain at the door.
Game rules may well be a case of market failure. Competition doesn't result in better value, if the consumers don't make rational choices, because they don't know or don't care when they're getting screwed.
But I think most visitors still know and care about the difference between $100 and $200 hotel rooms, ones that are nice and ones that are falling apart, menu prices, and so forth. Despite all the "consolidation," there's still real competition between Vegas hotels. And maybe more to the point, they have to compete with other vacation destinations.
So while the rules at our favorite games may not improve, we may see better values in hotels and restaurants, better comps, and just maybe, some exploitable promotions.
mjbballar23
Well-Known Member
WRX, i agree with basically everything here. After reading this post im not so sure that the pendulum will ever swing back to better blackjack rules. Many economic/market theories rely on the assumption that consumers make rational choices and that therefore causes the pendulum affect. However, gamblers are not educated on what a good game is and therefore cannot make rational choices. But gamblers do know the value of hotel rooms and food and can rationally choose the best bargains.
If only there was a way to mass educate ploppies about gambling...
zengrifter
Banned
Don't cry, its good for BJ conditions! zg
moo321
Well-Known Member
Depends on how you look at it. It used to be, Vegas was the only game in town. Yeah, the blackjack was awesome, but once you were done, you were done.
Today, there are literally thousands of places to play, with good games. You can be a full time pro, make decent money, and never have to worry about getting burned out. It's all in the way you look at it.
Does anyone have a link to the Life Magazine cover story; "Las Vegas-Is Boom Overextended?
It's from 1955,so obviously this isn't the first time around the block for this discussion.
Anyone remember the Fall of 2001?The US economy was in a period of turmoil,and people were afraid to fly. How did Vegas respond?Deep Discounts.
Rooms were discounted,packages were everywhere,even some of the top shows were on sale. The Fall/Winter of 2001 was a great time for smart visitors. I expect this summer/fall to be every bit as good.
It's from 1955,so obviously this isn't the first time around the block for this discussion.
Anyone remember the Fall of 2001?The US economy was in a period of turmoil,and people were afraid to fly. How did Vegas respond?Deep Discounts.
Rooms were discounted,packages were everywhere,even some of the top shows were on sale. The Fall/Winter of 2001 was a great time for smart visitors. I expect this summer/fall to be every bit as good.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I'm convinced there's no way. Look what the most popular form of gambling is in the US- it's also the worst one- state lottery.
The old-time gambler took pride in winning and accepted losing. They played because the ego boost they got from their winning sessions more than covered the house edge and the casinos were willing to enhance that boost by treating them like kings. Today's junket gamer just does not care about winning- the mindset is they're going to bring an amount of money that they plan on losing, and if they lose it, they've had a good time. That's more like bringing money to a strip club, where if a stripper gets all of it you definitely enjoyed yourself and if you have any left it probably wasn't very exciting.
iwantblackjack
Well-Known Member
There was a recent article on the Economic Troubles Affect the Vegas Strip (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/06/business/06vegas.html?hp) about how a young girl from LA, "who normally brings $10,000 on her trips to play blackjack" has brought less than half recently.
But more casinos or expansions are still occurring, like in Vegas, the Cosmopolitan, the Echelon, Encore, Palazzo, Fontainebleau, Palazzo, Project CityCenter. In AC, there are "plans" for MGM City Center East, Revel Entertainment Casino, and Pinnacle's mega casino resort.
But more casinos or expansions are still occurring, like in Vegas, the Cosmopolitan, the Echelon, Encore, Palazzo, Fontainebleau, Palazzo, Project CityCenter. In AC, there are "plans" for MGM City Center East, Revel Entertainment Casino, and Pinnacle's mega casino resort.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Here's my business plan for a casino:
Limited games:
Blackjack, single deck, average pen, hand shuffled and dealt. No sidebets, normal rules. Dealers look and talk like dealers instead of busboys.
Craps, traditional layout.
A poker room of course, but let's deal some draw and stud instead of this made-for-TV poker.
An area with baccarat and single-zero roulette for the E.T.'s
A sports book with a real oddsmaker writing the lines.
Slot machines, traditional reel spinners.
Liquor: real booze as opposed to rail booze, served by seductive waitresses that you're allowed to touch a little bit.
Food: serve food such that your patrons remember what a good meal they had there and are eager to come back. That's all, not so hard no?
Entertainment: a singer and small band in the casino, singing real songs not this jungle-jump music the kids are into. And a theater with classic LV-style shows.
There. Now would this casino have a revenue problem?
Limited games:
Blackjack, single deck, average pen, hand shuffled and dealt. No sidebets, normal rules. Dealers look and talk like dealers instead of busboys.
Craps, traditional layout.
A poker room of course, but let's deal some draw and stud instead of this made-for-TV poker.
An area with baccarat and single-zero roulette for the E.T.'s
A sports book with a real oddsmaker writing the lines.
Slot machines, traditional reel spinners.
Liquor: real booze as opposed to rail booze, served by seductive waitresses that you're allowed to touch a little bit.
Food: serve food such that your patrons remember what a good meal they had there and are eager to come back. That's all, not so hard no?
Entertainment: a singer and small band in the casino, singing real songs not this jungle-jump music the kids are into. And a theater with classic LV-style shows.
There. Now would this casino have a revenue problem?
iwantblackjack
Well-Known Member
I thought the old and new timer gamblers are those that do not accept losing and keep returning to the casinos with their last penny to get the wins.
WE need to know location, # tables, # machines before estimating projected revenue stream and profits or losses.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
The people who play 6:5 are the people who are the most likely to be hurt by a recession - ploppies who haven't played very much or for very long. The people who will likely gamble in good times or in bad times - gambling addicts, professional gamblers, serious players - avoid 6:5.
It would be most rational that in times of recession, we see FEWER 6:5 tables, as the optional-player base shrinks and the definite-player base remains constant.
That being said, I don't think some companies are rational, and that conglomerates like Harrah's are going to shift towards 6:5 in the mistaken belief that the number of gamblers are constant.
I can tell you are a old soul. You are living in the 50's. Casino with that business plan would be out of business shortly. Espicallythe one "A sports book with a real oddsmaker writing the lines. Also "Slot machines, traditional reel spinners. It's a younger crowd they market for.
"A poker room of course, but let's deal some draw and stud instead of this made-for-TV poker." When is the last time you seen a draw or stud tournament on tv. If it wasn't for TV Poker the game of poker would be dead.
Brutus
Well-Known Member
I agree with the Monkey.
the Casinos should get back to basics, and do what made vegas great to begin with.
as for the younger crowd. they generally dont have the work ethic of the generation before them, and therefore a lousy bankroll. why promote that kind of traffic?
Automatic Monkey
Banned
No the old time gambler sat at a blackjack table all night with a cigar and a bottle of whiskey playing $1000 a hand, and win or lose his gaming was a form of self-expression. He wanted to win but he'd be satisfied with being respected for his risk-taking. Same mentality as a brawler or a bull rider- the urban cowboy. Las Vegas was built by guys like that. But if you gave him a bad game or bad service he would feel disrespected and let you know it.
That kind of gambler doesn't seem to exist anymore. My theory is that today's whiskey-swilling bullies are all sitting in front of their computers day trading and flipping real estate to prove how tough they are, instead of being big shots at the casinos.