When to Wong-in?

M

MH1

Member
#1
#1
Hey guys. New to the forum, but catching myself up by reading some posts here. Here is my question hopefully someone can help me out. My bankroll is approximately $6000. I use Hi-Low w/ about 30 indeces. Unfortunately, the only casino in my area only offers $15 min. tables. The rules are not terrible: 8 decks, DAS, LS, S17, split up to four times, no respilt aces, double any two cards, about 75% pen. Ideally, I would like to implement a 1-16 spread for a game like this, but spreading $15-$240 would give me a pretty high ROR for my $6k bankroll. What I have been doing is trying to Wong in at TC+1 and Wong out at TC-1 and spread the following:

TC -1>+1 = $15
TC +2 = $30
TC +3 = $60
TC +4 = $90

The only problem that I have been experiencing is that even at off-peak hours, a seat at a $15 table is hard to get, which makes Wonging in at +1 very difficult. Would I be able to Wong In at TC=0 (after a shuffle) using this spread and still make money if I Wong-Out at TC-1? If not, then I really don't know what else I could try! If someone could run a sim on this or any other help/advice would be grealty appreciated!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!
 
B

beyondbj

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
your bankroll is really too little ,

i think under your schedule , u still have 20% ROR

if u have no other casino choice and if u dont mind ur bankroll broken

u can have a try , and wait for a better situation to wong in
 
M

MH1

Member
#4
#4
Tthree-

I agree I definitely think I need to Wong out at -1. But do you think I would be able to Wong in at TC=-0 (new shoe) and Wong out if the count goes down to TC-1 and still make money? Or do I need to Wong in at TC+1 to make any money at all?
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#5
#5
MH1 said:
Tthree-

I agree I definitely think I need to Wong out at -1. But do you think I would be able to Wong in at TC=-0 (new shoe) and Wong out if the count goes down to TC-1 and still make money? Or do I need to Wong in at TC+1 to make any money at all?
Click to expand...
You can. BUT ALSO, at counts below +1, try to skip rounds.
Skipping 1/2 or more would double your net-effective spread.
Also, instead of 1x90 make your topBet 2x60. zg
 
P

paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
zengrifter said:
You can. BUT ALSO, at counts below +1, try to skip rounds.
Skipping 1/2 or more would double your net-effective spread.
Also, instead of 1x90 make your topBet 2x60. zg
Click to expand...
From what he said about it being tough to find a seat, spreading to 2 hands may not be possible.
 
B

BUZZARD

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
But do you think I would be able to Wong in at TC=-0 (new shoe) and Wong out if the count goes down to TC-1 and still make money?
Click to expand...
No. I don't think you would make money. 90 bucks or 2X60 is as high as you should dare go assuming you want to keep that cash -or possibly lose most of it and give up in disgust.

You dont have enough money to start those $15 shoes from the start. I am in the same situation- after the nut-stomping I recieved yesterday, I have about TWICE as much money as you and I still cannot get myself to start the $15 min shoes available to me. I backount or just watch a few rounds to make sure it doesnt tank or goes up a bit at minimum.

It seems you don't have that option and believe me I know about the frustrations of wonging in crowded tables. It is some aggravating S%$t - you will not have fun.

The problem is you really need that big spread. I have ten minimums- these are harder to come buy and very nice- you could fire away 10-100 ,wong out and maybe make something.

But your situation-If your not backcounting - you really want to be firing away 15- 2X125 or higher even if your wonging out.

Have you ananlyzed the conditions of the casino around the clock? You may need to play very early or very late or right the f$%k on thru the nite if you want to hit them with your Wong. My favorite casino can range from amazing conditions to unplayable depending on time of day and day of week.
 
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Friendo

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Bankroll and penetration are the problem

After screwing with the CVCX numbers, the confining parameters seem to be that 75% penetration on the 8-deck shoe, and the size of your bankroll.

A 6:1 spread is fine if you're Wonging as you propose, but, with the particular game you mention, you're playing at above 1.0 Kelly, which is likely to bring you the hurt.

Two questions:

1) Have any more money lying around? Can you supplement your bankroll at the rate of, say, 20% of bankroll per 50 hours played?

2) Are there dealers around who will cut to better than 75% on an eight-deck shoe? I don't have a pronounced distaste for eight-deck shoes, but playing 6.5 or 7 decks out of 8 puts you in a much happier place with your SCORE/N0 figures.

The more I fiddle with simulators, the more I believe that $10K is the minimum non-replenishable bankroll which anyone should have if they plan on being around for long.
 
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C

CRF

Member
#11
#11
I dont mean to hijack the thread or anything, but when people speak of bankroll, how many hours of play are they talking about.
Because like in my situation i have an $8k bankroll, but its replenishable at about the rate of $1k per month, so is it ok to play as if i have a much larger bankroll?, meaning just make my unit size 10 or 15 instead of 5.
 
P

paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
CRF said:
I dont mean to hijack the thread or anything, but when people speak of bankroll, how many hours of play are they talking about.
Because like in my situation i have an $8k bankroll, but its replenishable at about the rate of $1k per month, so is it ok to play as if i have a much larger bankroll?, meaning just make my unit size 10 or 15 instead of 5.
Click to expand...
You certainly CAN play with that "anticipated" BR level, just be careful of the draw-downs which will up your RoR.
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
MH1 said:
Hey guys. New to the forum, but catching myself up by reading some posts here. Here is my question hopefully someone can help me out. My bankroll is approximately $6000. I use Hi-Low w/ about 30 indeces. Unfortunately, the only casino in my area only offers $15 min. tables. The rules are not terrible: 8 decks, DAS, LS, S17, split up to four times, no respilt aces, double any two cards, about 75% pen. Ideally, I would like to implement a 1-16 spread for a game like this, but spreading $15-$240 would give me a pretty high ROR for my $6k bankroll. What I have been doing is trying to Wong in at TC+1 and Wong out at TC-1 and spread the following:

TC -1>+1 = $15
TC +2 = $30
TC +3 = $60
TC +4 = $90

The only problem that I have been experiencing is that even at off-peak hours, a seat at a $15 table is hard to get, which makes Wonging in at +1 very difficult. Would I be able to Wong In at TC=0 (after a shuffle) using this spread and still make money if I Wong-Out at TC-1? If not, then I really don't know what else I could try! If someone could run a sim on this or any other help/advice would be grealty appreciated!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
Only casino in your area?

Mix it up:
Wong in different points
Wong out different points
Come and go when a civilian would.

Use that bet ramp as an approximation, learn all the civilian logic for raising and lowering bets in your casino and use it as camo.

If they call checks play at $100, then never bet $100.

Try to rathole some chips
keep your cash outs low, below $1,000 would be nice or whatever level the cage asks for ID.

In a session when you are winning, be less aggressive
In a session when you are losing, be more aggressive.
One can adjust their wong points to achieve the above.
 
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