Which is a better game?

[jezebel]

A local casino to me has two blackjack games available. I was wondering which gives me the better edge.

Game 1: No surrender, S17, DAS, re-split aces, double any two cards, split up to four times, about 70% pen

Game 2: Same thing, but offers surrender and H17 instead.

Game 2 only offers shoe, and I prefer pitch, but if the odds are better I may stick with that.

 

[apex]

What I have read says late surrender is worth .08%, s17 is worth .2%. So if all else is equal stick with the s17.

 

[HockeXpert]

LS is more valuable to a cc than to a bs player. Apex said that LS is worth .08 and S17 .2 but that is if you use bs only. LS is worth more than .08 to a cc but I don't recall how much. I would choose the LS game (option 2) over the S17 game off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure someone here will have a definitive answer.

The big question I have is is the penetration exactly equal between the two games and is it consistent. You may find that if the penetration varies that the best game would be found wherever the penetration is deepest.

 

[Sucker]

Game 2 only offers shoe, and I prefer pitch, but if the odds are better I may stick with that.

According to the Wizard of Odds:
If game 1 is double deck, with these rules; the HE is about .2%
If single deck, the HE is about .06%

If game 2 is:
4-deck shoe; HE = .41%
6-deck shoe; .46%
8 decks; .48%

It's not even close. Your hands-down choice is game #1, the pitch game, unless it's 6:5 BJ; in which case - don't even THINK about it!

 

[Southpaw]

H17, LS >>>>> S17, NS.

There is absolutely no question about this guys. LS is not worth very much to the BS player (around .08%), but to a card-counter it is worth MUCH more than the .20% that S17 is worth. I believe it is about usually about +.35%, but it can rise to +0.41%, depending on game conditions (See DS's BJA page 169 and 179). S17, however, regardless of playing conditions is always worth about .20%. Moreover, this fabulous rule (Surr) decreases variance, thus allowing you to play with bigger units as well.

In conclusion, go with the H17, LS game!

SP

 

[jopke]

You don't mention # of decks, but if they are the same, I'd go with game 2. If game 1 is 2D and game 2 is 6D, I'd go with game 1.

 

[21forme]

In a high count H17 = S17.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

According to the Wizard of Odds:
If game 1 is double deck, with these rules; the HE is about .2%
If single deck, the HE is about .06%

If game 2 is:
4-deck shoe; HE = .41%
6-deck shoe; .46%
8 decks; .48%

It's not even close. Your hands-down choice is game #1, the pitch game, unless it's 6:5 BJ; in which case - don't even THINK about it!

Two details:

1) Is the shoe game a DD game dealt out of a shoe? If not, how many decks?

2) How much of a spread can you get away with at each game?

A DD game with 70% pen is a desirable thing, but if all the heat in the place is on that game you might be a lot better off at the shoe game, with LS, spreading liberally and entering and leaving at will. I'd really have to see the place to give better advice.

 

[creeping panther]

Ok

In a high count H17 = S17.

Than 6.5 SD can be a great game until you get a BJ.:grin::laugh:

CP

 

[jezebel]

Let me clarify. Game 1 has both 2 deck pitch and 6 deck shoe available. The pen on the pitch games seemed to vary quite a bit (between 50-70 (I think they based it off the number of players).

Game 2 has only 6 deck shoe.

 

[zengrifter]

Let me clarify. Game 1 has both 2 deck pitch and 6 deck shoe available. The pen on the pitch games seemed to vary quite a bit (between 50-70 (I think they based it off the number of players).

Try to only play the 2D game when it has the 70%. zg

 

[bigplayer]

Let me clarify. Game 1 has both 2 deck pitch and 6 deck shoe available. The pen on the pitch games seemed to vary quite a bit (between 50-70 (I think they based it off the number of players).

Game 2 has only 6 deck shoe.

For shoes the s17 das rsa game is just slightly better than the h17 das ls rsa game with equal penetration. A 1-6 play-all with the s17 das rsa double deck is better than a 1-20 play-all spread on the six deck game in terms of SCORE but you can avoid deep negatives on the shoe game and that makes the two games about equal. I'd still probably lean towards the shoes especially if they are uncrowded and there are quite a few open so I can move around. The heat is usually less at shoes and game speed is higher. Penetration plays a big factor in the final decision here.

 

[Southpaw]

For shoes the s17 das rsa game is just slightly better than the h17 das ls rsa game with equal penetration. A 1-6 play-all with the s17 das rsa double deck is better than a 1-20 play-all spread on the six deck game in terms of SCORE but you can avoid deep negatives on the shoe game and that makes the two games about equal. I'd still probably lean towards the shoes especially if they are uncrowded and there are quite a few open so I can move around. The heat is usually less at shoes and game speed is higher. Penetration plays a big factor in the final decision here.

BP,

I am really curious as to why you believe that a S17, NS game is better than a H17, LS game. For a basic strategy player, this is the case, but for a card-counter this is not true at all.

Best,

SP

 

[WrongWayWade]

Game 1: No surrender, S17, DAS, re-split aces, double any two cards, split up to four times, about 70% pen

Game 2: Same thing, but offers surrender and H17 instead.

Game 2 only offers shoe, and I prefer pitch, but if the odds are better I may stick with that.

Let me clarify. Game 1 has both 2 deck pitch and 6 deck shoe available. The pen on the pitch games seemed to vary quite a bit (between 50-70 (I think they based it off the number of players).

Game 2 has only 6 deck shoe.

I would go with the 2-deck, S17 game over the 6-deck, H17 game, ESPECIALLY if you're getting 70% on the 2-decker. For me it isn't really a debate at all. Adding surrender but having to deal with 6-decks and H17 doesn't compensate at all, IMO. S17 is still worth a lot regardless of the number of decks. Basically I always choose 2-decks over 6 unless the minimums prevent it. But I loath wonging and prefer to play-all and get comps on top of the +EV.

Can someone run a SCORE on these games?