why not counting in csm ?
- Thread starter beyondbj
- Start date
aslan
Well-Known Member
My feeling is that even if a small advantage could be eked out, and it would be a very small advantage if any, we should boycott CSMs. In addition, APs should spread the word among ploppies that CSMs are designed take away any possible advantage, since the cards are essentially reshuffled every few minutes. Even proponents of the "sacred flow" or the "winning shoe" theories are trampled underfoot by these diabolical machines. Get the word out! Make it unprofitable for casinos to operate CSMs, and they will stop. There is no doubt about this.
paddywhack
Well-Known Member
Ah, yes, but...
As I see it, CSM's are here to stay unless the casinos want to go to all ASM's to speed up play or unless the rental fees become too exhorbitant.
They allow for faster play which is a great advantage to the casino. You'll always have the suckers waiting to play them that are even less informed than the most serious ploppy who "understands" about the "flow of the cards". :laugh:aslan said:
As I see it, CSM's are here to stay unless the casinos want to go to all ASM's to speed up play or unless the rental fees become too exhorbitant.
NightStalker
Well-Known Member
When does this happen?
Gosh I must have been on vacation !!!!southAP said:
aslan said:
How would you propose one does this? Obviously you can't stand behind a CSM table and say this, nor would an AP be sitting at the table.
If sitting at a regular ASM table, why expose your knowledge of the game in order to help strasngers?
An APs skills are no different from that of a mechanic or a lawyer. They worked and studied hard to get where they are so why share what they know with others for free? Best case scenerio, you save some stranger a few bucks. Worse case- pit starts to pay more attention to you.
aslan
Well-Known Member
No harm in trying. I will always talk them down whenever the opportunity arises.paddywhack said:
OTOH, the brand new ASM, card-reader shoe combination, which I first saw at Parx in PA, seems to be a great way to speed up play once the operators get used to them. There is no handling of chips (except for quitting payout), no opportunity for chip cheaters, no arguments about who got dealt what, since an ongoing record is kept by the machine, no waiting to count the value of your hand (there's a readout that updates your total with each card dealt), no mistakes about you buy-in amount (the computer keeps track of each and every buy-in amount). As long as they don't use it to analyze whether you are counting or not, I think this approach works for everyone. If they are allowed to use such a machine to analyze your play, I wonder how difficult it will be to defeat it. Anyway, that is the only downside I see, and it remains to be seen whether the law will allow it and whether the casinos go that way.
PS--There always seems to be a downside to whatever improvements are made.
aslan
Well-Known Member
I would never betray my skill. I only speak to ploppies in ploppy terms.shadroch said:
A conversation with a customer I was walking next to at a casino I recently visited went something like this:
Me: "I hate those continuous shuffle machines [nodding toward the CSM near us]. Sometimes all the good cards are near the end of the shoe, but they keep shuffling all the time. Every few cards it's a new shoe."
Him: Yeah, I hate them, too. I don't trust them. I think they can stack the deck."
I thereby was able to reinforce his distaste for CSMs. I hope he tells all his friends, too.
You could also say that you aren't able to see how the shoe is "flowing," because they shuffle too often. The shoe might start "flowing good" and they shuffle.
Or you could say that that you can't figure out when the shoe is "due to hit." Just when it's "due," they shuffle!
PS--As you may have guessed, I am very extroverted. I talk to people all the time wherever I play.
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
It doesn't generate a 1099 too, does it?aslan said:No harm in trying. I will always talk them down whenever the opportunity arises.
OTOH, the brand new ASM, card-reader shoe combination, which I first saw at Parx in PA, seems to be a great way to speed up play once the operators get used to them. There is no handling of chips (except for quitting payout), no opportunity for chip cheaters, no arguments about who got dealt what, since an ongoing record is kept by the machine, no waiting to count the value of your hand (there's a readout that updates your total with each card dealt), no mistakes about you buy-in amount (the computer keeps track of each and every buy-in amount). As long as they don't use it to analyze whether you are counting or not, I think this approach works for everyone. If they are allowed to use such a machine to analyze your play, I wonder how difficult it will be to defeat it. Anyway, that is the only downside I see, and it remains to be seen whether the law will allow it and whether the casinos go that way.
PS--There always seems to be a downside to whatever improvements are made.
21gunsalute
Well-Known Member
The same way word got out and around that the dealer wins the first hand of the shoe 83% of the time.shadroch said:
metronome
Well-Known Member
Aslan, I wish you were right about this.aslan said:
My heart sinks whenever I go to Oklahoma Casinos and FULL TABLES at 50 cent ante Blackjack w/ CSMs no less!!! However you can't scream at the top of your lungs... MORONS !!!
Unless one of the esteemed members at this site would be so kind as to .......
BAIL MY ASS OUTTA JAIL :laugh:
Durant , OK has a really nice jail. Saw it back in '85... they took my pot too.:flame:
bjcardcounter
Well-Known Member
Anyone knows the number of decks they use in CSM. In a Niagara casino I saw 5$/10$ pits using CSMs, they use to pile up the discard tray for about 3 hands (which is close to a deck) before inserting them back to the CSM. Not sure on the deck count though.aslan said: