Automatic Monkey
Banned
Has anyone ever tried this? I'm ordering CVData 3.0, which supports 6:5 BJ so I can figure out where I have to Wong in to make this worthwhile.
Wonging 6:5 SD
- Thread starter Automatic Monkey
- Start date
Shaggy18vw
Well-Known Member
Tough road
My guess is that a favorable situation will be few and far between. Assuming a hi-low count, the advantage won't be yours until you reach about +5.
My guess is that a favorable situation will be few and far between. Assuming a hi-low count, the advantage won't be yours until you reach about +5.
amusing sight indeed 'twould be....
likely there are statistics somewhere on the 21 websites indicating the frequency of that "+5" true count. meanwhile, i'd pay to see the act that permits one to double park in the aisle eyeballing a game awaiting that infrequent event.
likely there are statistics somewhere on the 21 websites indicating the frequency of that "+5" true count. meanwhile, i'd pay to see the act that permits one to double park in the aisle eyeballing a game awaiting that infrequent event.
I though version 2 could do that
There is a payoff section on version 2 that I assumed could do that. I wonder if version 3 is worth the money. I can't imagine really needing anything else. Although, I would like a section devoted completely to camouflage since I don't think version 2 deals with that enough. Is he giving free updates if you have version 2 ?
There is a payoff section on version 2 that I assumed could do that. I wonder if version 3 is worth the money. I can't imagine really needing anything else. Although, I would like a section devoted completely to camouflage since I don't think version 2 deals with that enough. Is he giving free updates if you have version 2 ?
zengrifter
Banned
More like +3
Big Cowboy
Well-Known Member
Don't do it!
Here we all are decrying the deterioration of playable BJ games, and now people are looking into playing 6:5? What I'm saying is, if people play, then the casinos will make 6:5 even more prevalent. Just stay away from those tables.
Here we all are decrying the deterioration of playable BJ games, and now people are looking into playing 6:5? What I'm saying is, if people play, then the casinos will make 6:5 even more prevalent. Just stay away from those tables.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Not if we hurt their hold
Those tables are usually very un-busy which means they are probably not very profitable. A few Wongers coming through can only hurt their hold, and make 6:5 seem like more of a bad idea from the casino's perspective.
Those tables are usually very un-busy which means they are probably not very profitable. A few Wongers coming through can only hurt their hold, and make 6:5 seem like more of a bad idea from the casino's perspective.
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Nice to dream, however...
they'll never notice much hurt because most of the time your wonged out. So you play 2 hands about every 15 - 20 minutes. To much standing and back-counting. They will bust your business before you can get in enough advantage play to make it worth while.
The thing to do is to just stay away from the 6:5 tables and bad-mouth it to as many people as you can. We can do it in a way that will make people feel stupid for even thinking about playing the game. The ploppies won't play it if they become educated on it even just a little. I like to start conversations by saying: "Gee, all those people don't realize how bad of a game they're playing" ... "It's not even a real game of BJ when they don't pay you properly for a BJ".
they'll never notice much hurt because most of the time your wonged out. So you play 2 hands about every 15 - 20 minutes. To much standing and back-counting. They will bust your business before you can get in enough advantage play to make it worth while.
The thing to do is to just stay away from the 6:5 tables and bad-mouth it to as many people as you can. We can do it in a way that will make people feel stupid for even thinking about playing the game. The ploppies won't play it if they become educated on it even just a little. I like to start conversations by saying: "Gee, all those people don't realize how bad of a game they're playing" ... "It's not even a real game of BJ when they don't pay you properly for a BJ".
Dont waste time with 6/5 wonging crap.
A simple way to mess with the hold without wasting time on a stupid game is buy $500 bucks of chips, play one hand and walk away....oh yeah,be sure to complain about how you thought you was at a REAL blackjack table.
*JUST SAY NO TO CARNIVAL CRAP*
A simple way to mess with the hold without wasting time on a stupid game is buy $500 bucks of chips, play one hand and walk away....oh yeah,be sure to complain about how you thought you was at a REAL blackjack table.
*JUST SAY NO TO CARNIVAL CRAP*
Dog Hand
Well-Known Member
Percent of Time TC>=+5 *LINK*
gehrig,
According to Norm's BJ Stats Website, using High-Low for SD, 4 Rounds, 1-4 spread, no cover, H17, a TC>=+5 will occur 7.91% of the time. With 4 rounds per shoe, you'll get about 1 opportunity every three-to-four shoes... not too long at SD.
For other rules sets, check the website to get the numbers. The "Cumulative Win, Loss, & Tied % By TC" table lists the numbers you'll need.
Dog Hand
gehrig,
According to Norm's BJ Stats Website, using High-Low for SD, 4 Rounds, 1-4 spread, no cover, H17, a TC>=+5 will occur 7.91% of the time. With 4 rounds per shoe, you'll get about 1 opportunity every three-to-four shoes... not too long at SD.
For other rules sets, check the website to get the numbers. The "Cumulative Win, Loss, & Tied % By TC" table lists the numbers you'll need.
Dog Hand
learning to count
Well-Known Member
Dont waste your time this is stupid
to even discuss. The casino vig is tremendous. Even if you wong in and out you are still playing the same vig and a higher ROR. This is as bad as discussing the merits of a progression. Zengrifter I am surprised you even added to this ignorant thread. Fug the casinos and thier 6/5 bullshite. Tom is right boycott this shite and complain!!!
to even discuss. The casino vig is tremendous. Even if you wong in and out you are still playing the same vig and a higher ROR. This is as bad as discussing the merits of a progression. Zengrifter I am surprised you even added to this ignorant thread. Fug the casinos and thier 6/5 bullshite. Tom is right boycott this shite and complain!!!
Automatic Monkey
Banned
What vig are you talking about?
That's silly those BJ games don't collect a vig. If your advantage on a hand is 2%, it's 2%, I don't care if BJ pays 6:5 or 1:1. Gehrig is right in that the issue is how often you will get a count high enough to give you an advantage to make it worth your time waiting on the side to Wong in, and can you make more money doing something else in that time. I'd say probably, yes, but if there is no protection on the 6:5 game at all and there is heavy protection everywhere else, then the 6:5 SD might be the better choice. I want to have a method to beat every BJ game in the casino. Just like the guys that beat SF21.
That's silly those BJ games don't collect a vig. If your advantage on a hand is 2%, it's 2%, I don't care if BJ pays 6:5 or 1:1. Gehrig is right in that the issue is how often you will get a count high enough to give you an advantage to make it worth your time waiting on the side to Wong in, and can you make more money doing something else in that time. I'd say probably, yes, but if there is no protection on the 6:5 game at all and there is heavy protection everywhere else, then the 6:5 SD might be the better choice. I want to have a method to beat every BJ game in the casino. Just like the guys that beat SF21.
crazy thing about it is
I saw some pit bosses actually watching that game like a hawk.
In one casino, I saw 6:5 blackjack then moved over a few tables and saw "handheld multideck". If you see either of these signs, get out of there. They almost had me fooled with those handheld multideck games. If they didn't have those huge machines behind the table, I might have sat down thinking it was a double deck. I mainly didn't sit down at first because I didn't understand what the machine was doing with the cards. I found out later that it was one of those fake double deck.
I saw some pit bosses actually watching that game like a hawk.
In one casino, I saw 6:5 blackjack then moved over a few tables and saw "handheld multideck". If you see either of these signs, get out of there. They almost had me fooled with those handheld multideck games. If they didn't have those huge machines behind the table, I might have sat down thinking it was a double deck. I mainly didn't sit down at first because I didn't understand what the machine was doing with the cards. I found out later that it was one of those fake double deck.
learning to count
Well-Known Member
No you are wrong!
Vig. ""A colloquial expression for the house advantage on a game."" It can also be used to describe any fee collected for play. It derives from a gangland term for the interest charged by loan sharks and is short for vigorish.*
*BJ21 website glossary ala Stanford wong.
The house advantage/VIG is too large to overcome even with wonging positive counts. This is a stupid effort! Boycott all such assinine casino anti counter games. Spread the word! This thread is a waste of typing power!
Vig. ""A colloquial expression for the house advantage on a game."" It can also be used to describe any fee collected for play. It derives from a gangland term for the interest charged by loan sharks and is short for vigorish.*
*BJ21 website glossary ala Stanford wong.
The house advantage/VIG is too large to overcome even with wonging positive counts. This is a stupid effort! Boycott all such assinine casino anti counter games. Spread the word! This thread is a waste of typing power!
learning to count
Well-Known Member
You need to read this auto-monkey!
Four Common Casino Blackjack Scams
by
Al Rogers*
Single Deck that pays 6 to 5 on blackjacks
This scam tries to play on the myth among uneducated players that "single deck games offer better odds."
While this is usually true, it is NOT true with the 6 to 5 payoff scam. Normal blackjacks pay 7 ½ to 5. The house advantage on a normal single deck game is .18%, which means that an unskilled player who plays just simple "basic strategy" can expect to lose 18 cents for every $100.00 of bets made.
The 6 to 5 ripoff game has a house edge of 1.45%, more than eight times the advantage the casino has on a normal single deck game. The unskilled player will lose $1.45 for every $100.00 of bets.
The house edge in a normal six-deck shoe is about .63%, much worse for the player than a normal single deck, but nowhere near as bad as the single deck 6 to 5 ripoff game.
Continuous shuffling machines
These nasty devices require the dealer to insert the used cards from each round back into the machine, instead of using a discard tray as is normally done. The effect is that of playing against a virtually infinite deck. Every round is played "off the top of the deck," when there is a 100% chance that the unskilled player is at a severe disadvantage.
Fake double deck or fake single deck games
The dealer will hold one or two decks in his or her hand, but it is really a five to eight-deck game being shuffled every deck or less. There usually is a sign on the table that reads "Hand-Held Multi-Deck Game," though the casino will frequently try to hide the sign behind ashtrays or other objects on the table.
Superfun 21
This is the only game among the four discussed herein that can be beaten by a skilled advantage player. However, it takes an entirely different set of strategy numbers and plays than does normal blackjack. The house advantage is .94%, if using Superfun 21 basic strategy. If played like normal blackjack, it is much worse.
Frequently dealers and pit personnel will lie, telling an unsuspecting tourist that this game can be played "like regular blackjack," but it cannot. If this game is played like regular blackjack, expect to lose and lose very quickly.
JUST SAY NO TO ANY AND ALL OF THESE RIPOFF GAMES!
* Al Rogers is an employee of BJ21.com -- show your appreciation by visiting bj21.com today.
Four Common Casino Blackjack Scams
by
Al Rogers*
Single Deck that pays 6 to 5 on blackjacks
This scam tries to play on the myth among uneducated players that "single deck games offer better odds."
While this is usually true, it is NOT true with the 6 to 5 payoff scam. Normal blackjacks pay 7 ½ to 5. The house advantage on a normal single deck game is .18%, which means that an unskilled player who plays just simple "basic strategy" can expect to lose 18 cents for every $100.00 of bets made.
The 6 to 5 ripoff game has a house edge of 1.45%, more than eight times the advantage the casino has on a normal single deck game. The unskilled player will lose $1.45 for every $100.00 of bets.
The house edge in a normal six-deck shoe is about .63%, much worse for the player than a normal single deck, but nowhere near as bad as the single deck 6 to 5 ripoff game.
Continuous shuffling machines
These nasty devices require the dealer to insert the used cards from each round back into the machine, instead of using a discard tray as is normally done. The effect is that of playing against a virtually infinite deck. Every round is played "off the top of the deck," when there is a 100% chance that the unskilled player is at a severe disadvantage.
Fake double deck or fake single deck games
The dealer will hold one or two decks in his or her hand, but it is really a five to eight-deck game being shuffled every deck or less. There usually is a sign on the table that reads "Hand-Held Multi-Deck Game," though the casino will frequently try to hide the sign behind ashtrays or other objects on the table.
Superfun 21
This is the only game among the four discussed herein that can be beaten by a skilled advantage player. However, it takes an entirely different set of strategy numbers and plays than does normal blackjack. The house advantage is .94%, if using Superfun 21 basic strategy. If played like normal blackjack, it is much worse.
Frequently dealers and pit personnel will lie, telling an unsuspecting tourist that this game can be played "like regular blackjack," but it cannot. If this game is played like regular blackjack, expect to lose and lose very quickly.
JUST SAY NO TO ANY AND ALL OF THESE RIPOFF GAMES!
* Al Rogers is an employee of BJ21.com -- show your appreciation by visiting bj21.com today.
learning to count
Well-Known Member
Have at it if you think you will win.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I did the sim
You Wong in at +6 (HO2), raise your bet at +9, and your win rate is about the same as a bad shoe game. So if the only other game available is a bad shoe game, you have something to keep you from getting bored. Are we settled now?
You Wong in at +6 (HO2), raise your bet at +9, and your win rate is about the same as a bad shoe game. So if the only other game available is a bad shoe game, you have something to keep you from getting bored. Are we settled now?