"Wonging"

[distractTHEdealer]

It seems to me as though "wonging" is the safest way to play, but it also seems as though it would be near impossible to do at the same casino more than once or twice, without appearing to be a counter. Any ideas or cover plays to make this a solid strategy? I'd like maximize my BR, lower mr ROR, and be more succsessfullR...

 

[Sucker]

I'd like maximize my BR, lower mr ROR, and be more succsessfullR...

Wouldn't we ALL? :grin::grin:

If you notice a boss watching you, you might want to make a sizable bet or two off the top or near the top of a shoe. It'll only cost you about 50-60 cents for every $100 bet, and will settle down all but the most astute bosses. If you make this bet as part of a cash buy-in, even if you've got chips in your pocket; the boss will come over, the bet will be extra sure to get noticed, and it'll give him a bit more time to notice the fact that it's an off-the-top bet.

 

[BJLFS]

If you have a cell phone just say that you have a call.

If anyone is a member of http://www.BlackjackApprenticeship.com they have a video on Wonging.

 

[aslan]

It seems to me as though "wonging" is the safest way to play, but it also seems as though it would be near impossible to do at the same casino more than once or twice, without appearing to be a counter. Any ideas or cover plays to make this a solid strategy? I'd like maximize my BR, lower mr ROR, and be more succsessfullR...

No one thinks anything of a bathroom break, a telephone break, or a "hold my place" unexplained break. Sometimes I fake receiving a phone call--sometimes I feign making a call. Lately, I keep a Corona half empty in front of me, so who can question a bathroom break. No one is counting to see whether you are breaking in a negative or positive count. If they are, you have probably already been ID'ed as a probable counter, but you should have "felt" the heat in most cases and already left the table. The MAIN thing that will get "their" attention is betting uncharacteristically big and winning a lot of money. LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. You have to meet your wife. You're late for a date. You just wanted to win something or lose something before you left. You promised you'd be home an hour ago. Or just silence and leave. Whatever best fits the character you portrayed during your stint at the table. If it's a sizable amount, I don't cash it in right away. I don't want my portrait taken at the cashier's cage. Sometimes, too, if I have been rat-holing a ton of small denom chips, I cash in at the poker room where smaller denominations are commonplace.

 

[Deleted member 3273]

About wonging

Do not be to concerned the pit knows you are a card counter or not. If you stay at their comfort level they do not care. They just care about you making a bunch of money at once. Move around a lot leaving a shoe winning or losing. I do back count not more than one shoe, than moving towards another table. If they start to act, than start opening the box of tricks in order to confuse them.

Beer, being obnotious, betting of the top as suggested by one of the posters here all helps. Once betting bigger, improve your dress code. And if you really need to be a clown, than push yourself in a wheelchair cause after wonging the entire night I have done this Friday I got so tired from just standing that I have ordered a wheelchair. That is so much better while peeking nto the hole card of some of those sloppy dealers.
:laugh:

 

[Sucker]

Do not be to concerned the pit knows you are a card counter or not. If you stay at their comfort level they do not care.

As most of us already know; nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Yes & No

Do not be to concerned the pit knows you are a card counter or not. If you stay at their comfort level they do not care. They just care about you making a bunch of money at once.

The pit may snicker a bit at the $5 to $20 counter.
Most likely the pit does not notice the low level counter because they are under the radar.
The pit will pay attention to any big bettors or big winners. If one is even a low level counter they should take some precautions against detection.

As barkingstork touched on moving around and not getting to greedy are good precautions against detection.

:joker::whip:

 

[distractTHEdealer]

I like the idea of feighning a phone call, I can do that untill the count is up then hop in. I'm trying to figure out good reasons to stand there but not play. I'm going to probably do it all in a wheelchair... :-D :-D :-D

 

[BJLFS]

I like the idea of feighning a phone call, I can do that untill the count is up then hop in. I'm trying to figure out good reasons to stand there but not play. I'm going to probably do it all in a wheelchair... :-D :-D :-D

There's also saying "Let's let a few hands go by". You want to "wait until the cards are shuffled." You can take a bathroom break. Refill your beverage. And so forth ........

 

[aslan]

I like the idea of feighning a phone call, I can do that untill the count is up then hop in. I'm trying to figure out good reasons to stand there but not play. I'm going to probably do it all in a wheelchair... :-D :-D :-D

You can also imitate a superstitious ploppy. Many a ploppy at tables I've been at have stopped playing, sometimes in plus counts, and often in neutral counts, because the cards were not "running good." The truth is, I don't think I've ever seen them stop playing during a really negative count. They just sit there and let the table enjoy all the good cards. Maybe they think things are good for the rest of us because they got out. There is no fathomoing the mind of a ploppy.

 

[metronome]

Wonging @ the table

Unscientific observation, at negative counts, when i sit out at 6d or even 2d, seems like the table does better, my wife certainly points out she's doing better (of course :laugh. I've even told here to take a potty break, BUT NO, she plays on .....and does well. Probably, it is the "remember the bad result and forget the better result".
At least at double deck, the little yellow "wild card" will soon appear.
P.S. an inveterate red chipper (so far), no problem sittin' and not playin',... for a while at least.

 

[aslan]

Unscientific observation, at negative counts, when i sit out at 6d or even 2d, seems like the table does better, my wife certainly points out she's doing better (of course :laugh. I've even told here to take a potty break, BUT NO, she plays on .....and does well. Probably, it is the "remember the bad result and forget the better result".
At least at double deck, the little yellow "wild card" will soon appear.
P.S. an inveterate red chipper (so far), no problem sittin' and not playin',... for a while at least.

I have sometimes said to myself, I'll play one round past my exit point and if I lose, I'll wong out, but if I win, I'll press forward until I lose back to my original exit point. I have been surprised sometimes to find myself winning nearly every hand.

I figure the exit point is only an approximation, and represents only a marginal difference, and the accompanying deck estimation is only an approximation as well, so there's some wiggle room for error. It also can be a good cover play, that is, playing through long negative counts where winning against the odds works out, as it sometimes does.

It is especially tempting to play past your exit point when you have been winning more than losing in the negative count up to the exit point.

Overall, it's a bit of voodoo, but not all that damaging IMHO, something like hitting 16 vs dealer ten at key count. Still, the math is the math, and you have to realize that if you continue to do this, it works out against you in the long run. It is better I suppose to get my lazy butt up for a bathroom break. :whip:

 

[Deleted member 3273]

being known or not!

I will give some simple knowledge but for most people that simplicity scares the hell out of them. Being nice to people acting the opposite of what people expectations are will make ME "invisable". Truth will always be invisable. Truth scares people! So all what they do is feeding knowledge based upon responses, based upon fear.

Being humble helps, Showing respect for people too! In that context love feeds your success and not acting like other people are your enemies. I am a great actor, giving people the opposite of what has been learned as a model of truth.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Voodooed

I have sometimes said to myself, I'll play one round past my exit point and if I lose, I'll wong out, but if I win, I'll press forward until I lose back to my original exit point. I have been surprised sometimes to find myself winning nearly every hand.

I figure the exit point is only an approximation, and represents only a marginal difference, and the accompanying deck estimation is only an approximation as well, so there's some wiggle room for error. It also can be a good cover play, that is, playing through long negative counts where winning against the odds works out, as it sometimes does.

It is especially tempting to play past your exit point when you have been winning more than losing in the negative count up to the exit point.

Overall, it's a bit of voodoo, but not all that damaging IMHO, something like hitting 16 vs dealer ten at key count. Still, the math is the math, and you have to realize that if you continue to do this, it works out against you in the long run. It is better I suppose to get my lazy butt up for a bathroom break. :whip:

Almost,
Let's say your exit point is; as you perceive it, exactly TC-2 which is -1% disadvantage at this game. Then you decide to play one more hand until you lose. What is your EV over time for doing this? Number of hands played * bet * disadvantage/100. The playing of one more hand until losing "beyond" the exit point is what costs you.

I am not saying that this is not potentially good cover because you are leaving at different times and on a loss, but it shows the negative ev of the one more hand till loss strategy.

:joker::whip:

 

[flyingwind]

Unscientific observation, at negative counts, when i sit out at 6d or even 2d, seems like the table does better, my wife certainly points out she's doing better (of course :laugh. I've even told here to take a potty break, BUT NO, she plays on .....and does well. Probably, it is the "remember the bad result and forget the better result".
At least at double deck, the little yellow "wild card" will soon appear.
P.S. an inveterate red chipper (so far), no problem sittin' and not playin',... for a while at least.

I don't know why, but I try to play through negative counts for camo. Don't seem to work. Still get heat. Surveillance doesn't care that I'm playing the negative counts. The pit doesn't care that I'm losing money. When I get to the postive counts, bring on the heat.

 

[BJLFS]

I don't know why, but I try to play through negative counts for camo. Don't seem to work. Still get heat. Surveillance doesn't care that I'm playing the negative counts. The pit doesn't care that I'm losing money. When I get to the postive counts, bring on the heat.

I think it's because they have more time to scrutinize you and watch your play. That's my feeling about the PCs and eye in the sky. The best thing to do is leave.

 

[aslan]

I think it's because they have more time to scrutinize you and watch your play. That's my feeling about the PCs and eye in the sky. The best thing to do is leave.

From my experience, the only things that initially gets their attention are suddenly and greatly increasing your bets, then reducing them at the start of the next shoe, and winning large amounts of money. Both these attention getters can be dealt with by leaving.

 

[Deleted member 3273]

another point

Cardcounters problem is to much fear of being caught. Stay nice to them. give some appreciate tipping. And do not be greedy. Yes I could have made much more pressing it. but than be out of business. WONGING in taking them bit by bit adds to a lot of money in the long run. It is all money I do not use. So I am happy getting my cut everyday I am doing this.

I know some would think I am something odd, but most cardcounters simple fail for two reasons. Greed or to much fear being to timide. Forget about your ego. Allow them to think you are another ploppy.

And what is moslty the best being a wonger lately! NO sabotaging relationships people call love,no attachements, accepting truth and flow running your life A spiritual orgasm is longlasting! :laugh: And if you have any doubt in me ask my great friend and collegue Zen Griffin!

 

[MasterofNone]

i use the football analogy of running up the gut a few times to set up the long pass. when u sit down drop the hint you are suposed to meet your spouse in a few minutes and look at your watch a few times. or say you feel a little lightheaded and are going to hit the buffet soon or go check out of your room. that way if u color up quick it is no surprise. i've even got a kindhearted PB to issue me a food comp when i pull the low blood sugar bit (not an act sometimes). i also have perfected the superstitious "i am going to sit out a bit to change the flow of cards" routine.

 

[BUZZARD]

creppy pit buzzard

Atlantic city has some bad games but It seems very accessible to backcounting. I dont see any heat and nobody cares I'm doing it. Sure I have to play eight deckers but i show up around 9 AM and my conditions are peachy. Many, many low limit tables available, not too over crowded and other stupid looking people standing around same as I am watching the tables. Flatscreens right over the pit- Am i watching women's volleyball or the fat chick at third base standing on her soft 17? Nobody knows and nobody cares.
I do not spend a second at a table that I do not need to be there. I am aware of how close to shuffle all tables in the pit are. I'm not standing there watching the dealer shuffle- I'm over feigning interest in a 3 card poker table. But the second the dealer burns a card Im there and im usually out before two decks - sooner if a table 15 feet away has shuffled and my running count is still in the 1-8 range.
I answer many important phone calls all day- however I have no friends and am talking to myself. If you feel uncomfortable walking around talking to yourself in a casino I don't blame you. But it's kind of fun . My favorite casino I was evicted 3 years ago; I still do this and they are clueless.
Granted im kind of noobish and not laying down any eye popping action- but I had said so many bad things about AC in my few posts I thought I should say something good for once:grin: