"Worst cards imaginable"

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

From Kevin Blackwoods article off the main page "World's Greatest job". The exact quote was: "But it's a whole different world when you've sat through ten draining hours of the worst cards imaginable".

Yeah well that was me last weekend. I hate to use the words "bad cards" because it takes on a negative connotation which leads to negative thinking and later disaster. Plus i really made some shaky plays like splitting tens three times in high TC only to give the dealer the twenty and me the three stiff hands...

And I'd tried to force things to happen rather than LET it happen. Tried for a first round knockout. Succeeded for a bit but then got sloppy with my game. Later all hell broke loose.

Especially the last three shoes when it seemed I got stiff hands on average eight out of ten times the dealer showed ten or ace. Hey, it can happen.

I really should have just kept betting the low minimum until things really broke loose. It was, after a game with some of the best rules I've seen so far with at least 75 to 80 percent penetration on six deck shoes.

So i dropped a few hundred but learned a good lesson of how i need to improve.

Assets: My counting is perfect and i can joke with the dealer and pit boss now and still keep track.

Deficiencies: Tend to force stuff to happen before the deck is warm enough. My edge being not quite high enough to work when lady luck REALLY turns south. That and i feared after a few big wins I was getting watched. So started to vary my best even during the low counts in order to fend off imaginary "heat" from the staff. Bad idea...

However over all it really WAS just a night of "less preferable cards". That's the closest I'll ever come to saying "bad cards".

An idiot can win with good luck.

I can win without luck or even a little bad luck

But no one wins with truly BAD LUCK.

Eight out of ten hands went stiff (in high TC) against dealers ten or ace. Jeezus!

 

[Reno Dude]

From Kevin Blackwoods article off the main page "World's Greatest job". The exact quote was: "But it's a whole different world when you've sat through ten draining hours of the worst cards imaginable".

Yeah well that was me last weekend. I hate to use the words "bad cards" because it takes on a negative connotation which leads to negative thinking and later disaster. Plus i really made some shaky plays like splitting tens three times in high TC only to give the dealer the twenty and me the three stiff hands...

And I'd tried to force things to happen rather than LET it happen. Tried for a first round knockout. Succeeded for a bit but then got sloppy with my game. Later all hell broke loose.

Especially the last three shoes when it seemed I got stiff hands on average eight out of ten times the dealer showed ten or ace. Hey, it can happen.

I really should have just kept betting the low minimum until things really broke loose. It was, after a game with some of the best rules I've seen so far with at least 75 to 80 percent penetration on six deck shoes.

So i dropped a few hundred but learned a good lesson of how i need to improve.

Assets: My counting is perfect and i can joke with the dealer and pit boss now and still keep track.

Deficiencies: Tend to force stuff to happen before the deck is warm enough. My edge being not quite high enough to work when lady luck REALLY turns south. That and i feared after a few big wins I was getting watched. So started to vary my best even during the low counts in order to fend off imaginary "heat" from the staff. Bad idea...

However over all it really WAS just a night of "less preferable cards". That's the closest I'll ever come to saying "bad cards".

An idiot can win with good luck.

I can win without luck or even a little bad luck

But no one wins with truly BAD LUCK.

Eight out of ten hands went stiff (in high TC) against dealers ten or ace. Jeezus!

I have had quite a few nights like yours over the last few weeks. The bad nights make me question myself as to what I'm doing and if I know what I'm doing. I feel as long as Im ahead at the end of the month and I've had a few really good steak dinners comped then I'm doing just fine.

 

[ihate17]

Yes, you have to get some cards.

I just recently had my worst session of the year, actually my worst session in 5 years.
I wong into a shoe which had an early TC of +3 and just lose probably the first 3, then get an 11, double and hit an ace. The count stays high enough for a max bet and I think it will be the last hand of the shoe, so I add a hand and put almost a max bet on each. Three players on the table, player 1 and 2 both get blackjack. I get a 19 and 18, dealer showing a K has 20. Count has gone down some so I lower my bet and lose again. Lose the first 4 or so of the next shoe and wong out. Must have lost 8 or 9 with the double down and move on.
Next table, same thing. Most ridiculous thing was I got 3 more 11's and pulled an ace on each and lost. That is 4 11's pulling 4 aces???
Leave that table and now I have lost 18 in a row, with 4 doubles and a split.

Next table, wong in on positive count, lose 5 or 6 more fairly large bets, count has tanked and my session roll is almost gone. I quit and take a nap. Come back the next shift, win a little but the only high count I run into is a small winner.

During my streak I lost every double or split. I never got blackjack but the dealers had 4 or 5 and most of them came when I either had a 20 or a double hand. The only times the dealer busted was after I busted. I won zero hands and probably lost around 30 in a row, anyone want to talk martingale.

Oh as a final slap in the face, I put enough down for a CTR.

Upon my return to this casino the dealer who kicked my butt the hardest taps in. He remembers me and says that was the worst run of luck he ever saw. I agree, telling him it was the worst I ever had. I have some decent cards this time and get 25% of my loss back.

ihate17

 

[EasyRhino]

Wow, me too brothers. Maybe we should start a club or something? A support group?

To be honest, I don't really pay that much attention to how I win or lose hands. I mean... you remember the weird hands, where you split like 5 times, or where both you and your tablemate get a pair of sevens, split, get doubledowns on each hand, and then dealt stiffs on the doubles... that's just strange. But, I mean, there's so many different ways to lose... getting dealt stiffs, dealer naturals, getting "beat by 1", disastrous doubledowns, dealers drawing to ridiculous hands, etc.

It doesn't really matter, because there's just about as many ridiculous ways to win. Some days you win big, and some days you get your ass pounded into the ground.

Irish, some lines in your post sound a warning chord, there's may be some borderline voodoo in there. What does "forcing stuff before the deck is warm enough" mean? The deck has no temperature, only a count. It either justifies increasing your bet, or it doesn't.

And don't worry about your edge not being big enough to overcome short term variance. Look at it from the reverse side. The slots at McCarran airport have 10-15% house edge. But lots of people still end up winning money on them... yet most APs would devour their own children for such a large advantage.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I just recently had my worst session of the year, actually my worst session in 5 years.
I wong into a shoe which had an early TC of +3 and just lose probably the first 3, then get an 11, double and hit an ace. The count stays high enough for a max bet and I think it will be the last hand of the shoe, so I add a hand and put almost a max bet on each. Three players on the table, player 1 and 2 both get blackjack. I get a 19 and 18, dealer showing a K has 20. Count has gone down some so I lower my bet and lose again. Lose the first 4 or so of the next shoe and wong out. Must have lost 8 or 9 with the double down and move on.
Next table, same thing. Most ridiculous thing was I got 3 more 11's and pulled an ace on each and lost. That is 4 11's pulling 4 aces???
Leave that table and now I have lost 18 in a row, with 4 doubles and a split.

Next table, wong in on positive count, lose 5 or 6 more fairly large bets, count has tanked and my session roll is almost gone. I quit and take a nap. Come back the next shift, win a little but the only high count I run into is a small winner.

During my streak I lost every double or split. I never got blackjack but the dealers had 4 or 5 and most of them came when I either had a 20 or a double hand. The only times the dealer busted was after I busted. I won zero hands and probably lost around 30 in a row, anyone want to talk martingale.

Oh as a final slap in the face, I put enough down for a CTR.

Upon my return to this casino the dealer who kicked my butt the hardest taps in. He remembers me and says that was the worst run of luck he ever saw. I agree, telling him it was the worst I ever had. I have some decent cards this time and get 25% of my loss back.

ihate17

this is EXACTLY why i dont spread with only $1500-2000.. i have already hit a decent negative fluctuation, losing over $200 in roughly 3 hours (go ahead, laugh), which apparently betting $10 flat with a ~.3% advantage (wonging, thus i played probably 90 hands in those 3 hours) is hard to do, even tho it doesnt sound that hard, he said it was, but i forgot who on here said that

 

[RG1]

Two sessions ago I lost all but two hands in an entire 8 deck shoe (1 win and 1 push). The count was between 0 and almost +2 the entire time, therefore I didn't raise my bet at all, luckily I only lost 21 units, but it only took 10 minutes.

Last session I was at the table with a buddy. The count goes up to about +3 so we increase our bets, dealer gets 3 BJ's in a row, all 3 with a 10 upcard so we couldn't take insurance. A little while later after one ploppy is bitching that I keep opening up boxes and screwing up the "flow of the cards" and another is bitching that I hit my A7 v 9 we switch tables. At the new table my buddy draws six 16 v 10's in a row. The count is fluctuating around 0 so some of them he hits and some he stands on. He loses everyone of them.

I just keep telling myself that eventually it is going to be the other way around, where I only lose 1 hand in a shoe, I will get three BJ's in a row with a decent bet out, or the dealer will draw 6 16's in a row.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

What concerns me is when my mindset changes from a card player to a gambler. It's a subtle border. Taking slightly bigger risks is mildly less favorable situations.

And is more likely to happen after either a big win or a long session of small loses. Other than that my play is good. Better than expected from a counting level. I just need to be more patient over all. Look at the things from a serious but recreational level for a while.

A small concern. It's like Blackwood's other statement: "The kaleidescope of emotions". It is a matter of discipline to me I think.

 

[zengrifter]

Plus i really made some shaky plays like splitting tens three times in high TC only to give the dealer the twenty and me the three stiff hands...

That does NOT sound like a shaky play. It sounds like the correct play.

Tend to force stuff to happen before the deck is warm enough. My edge being not quite high enough to work when lady luck REALLY turns south. That and i feared after a few big wins I was getting watched. So started to vary my best even during the low counts in order to fend off imaginary "heat" from the staff. Bad idea...

OVER-BETTING is a killer.

Camoflauge is NOT NEEDED for $5u play. zg

 

[ihate17]

over and under betting

The emotional end of blackjack can easily turn a new cardcounter into a non advantage player.
When you are having a bad session, emotions take over and you are now overbetting your advantage and even purely steaming. So you bet too high when losing and that ROR is peeking in on you.

When you are having some good cards and a decent session, you may remember some bad beats you took during other sessions with big bets out and underbet your advantage, never being able to make the amount of money you should have made. Instead of steaming, you have fallen victim to fear.

This combination can lead to some real large losing sessions that always appear larger than your winning sessions.

ihate17

 

[jack.jackson]

The emotional end of blackjack can easily turn a new cardcounter into a non advantage player.
When you are having a bad session, emotions take over and you are now overbetting your advantage and even purely steaming. So you bet too high when losing and that ROR is peeking in on you.

When you are having some good cards and a decent session, you may remember some bad beats you took during other sessions with big bets out and underbet your advantage, never being able to make the amount of money you should have made. Instead of steaming, you have fallen victim to fear.

This combination can lead to some real large losing sessions that always appear larger than your winning sessions.

ihate17

And how true that is, even playing at my kitchen table I tend to get a little rattled. Steaming when im losing,especially on max bets, and underbetting when im winning.
Its hard enough to beat when playing it perfectly, let alone short changing yourself by overbetting and underbetting. Negative fluctuations can last a long time and they'll leave you feeling emotionaly drained and empty.And broke.

__________________________________
Knowledge is forever eternal.....jj

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

That does NOT sound like a shaky play. It sounds like the correct play.

OVER-BETTING is a killer.

Camoflauge is NOT NEEDED for $5u play. zg

All good posts. Liked Ihate17's too.

ROR? What dat stand for?

 

[Preston]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has been getting abused these past two weeks.

I was on a four month winnings streak.. Starting with a $200 back in June I turned it into $7500.

I burned $1500 two weeks ago and then my next few sessions got it back.

Then last night I had my worst session ever.

Count would call for max bets, and I'd get 11's... against a dealer low card. I'd get a 4 or 5. Then dealer would flip over 16. Pull an A. Just to piss me off.

It was brutal and I'm taking a break from it because I'm still a bit rattled over it. I lost control and overbet. I have made it a point to maintain poise but it can be hard when you're getting creamed but the idiot flat betting $10 at first base gets all the blackjacks..

Lesson learned.

I can't complain. I'm still up big time... but I know if I go to a casino within the next week or so I'm still going to be in the "chasing losses" mentality and I'd rather just wait until that boils over.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has been getting abused these past two weeks.

I was on a four month winnings streak.. Starting with a $200 back in June I turned it into $7500.

I burned $1500 two weeks ago and then my next few sessions got it back.

Then last night I had my worst session ever.

Count would call for max bets, and I'd get 11's... against a dealer low card. I'd get a 4 or 5. Then dealer would flip over 16. Pull an A. Just to piss me off.

It was brutal and I'm taking a break from it because I'm still a bit rattled over it. I lost control and overbet. I have made it a point to maintain poise but it can be hard when you're getting creamed but the idiot flat betting $10 at first base gets all the blackjacks..

Lesson learned.

I can't complain. I'm still up big time... but I know if I go to a casino within the next week or so I'm still going to be in the "chasing losses" mentality and I'd rather just wait until that boils over.

Sorry to hear of this but thank you for your honesty. I agree whole heartedly. Can relate perfectly to the "avoid the casino" until my head clears idea.

The way i intend to deal with my own recent loss is to wait a few weeks or a month and practice flat betting the minimum except where advised to go higher and ONLY when the deck shows a clear advantage. While my cards were not favorable last Saturday night my mindset was more the problem than the playing conditions.

Had I bet perfectly I still would have had a losing evening but not a near disaster. So the problem was largely psychological and disciplinary. In my own case that is.

 

[aslan]

All good posts. Liked Ihate17's too.

ROR? What dat stand for?

RoR stands for risk of ruin. It's a calculation you can make to determine what percentage of the time you will double your bankroll before you otherwise lose your entire bankroll.

When things go south their is absolutely nothing you can do other than what you have been trained to do as a counter. Don't overbet. Don't underbet. Just follow the rules. It's all just one continuous session and you will surely win in the long run, if you live that long. lol I was amused when I read Ihate17 tell about his bad luck following him from table to table. Amused because I have done the very same thing. This past summer I had a nightmare of a time. Like you I steamed and overbet in an attempt to recoup my losses. All that did was magnify my losses, more than $2,000. On the other side, when things were going well in later weeks, I was shy about betting the max. All that did was minimize my winnings. Now I am over it and things are going well again. Lessons learned: Always stay cool and detached no matter what. It's almost a religious exercise. Emotions have no place in money matters. It's probably the best experience a counter can have. Now you know you are vulnerable. Now you should know more than ever to stay as close to the mathematics of counting and betting as humanly possible, because that's all you've got.

PS - It's nice talking with you away from the Zen Zone and politics.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

RoR stands for risk of ruin. It's a calculation you can make to determine what percentage of the time you will double your bankroll before you otherwise lose your entire bankroll.

When things go south their is absolutely nothing you can do other than what you have been trained to do as a counter. Don't overbet. Don't underbet. Just follow the rules. It's all just one continuous session and you will surely win in the long run, if you live that long. lol I was amused when I read Ihate17 tell about his bad luck following him from table to table. Amused because I have done the very same thing. This past summer I had a nightmare of a time. Like you I steamed and overbet in an attempt to recoup my losses. All that did was magnify my losses, more than $2,000. On the other side, when things were going well in later weeks, I was shy about betting the max. All that did was minimize my winnings. Now I am over it and things are going well again. Lessons learned: Always stay cool and detached no matter what. It's almost a religious exercise. Emotions have no place in money matters. It's probably the best experience a counter can have. Now you know you are vulnerable. Now you should know more than ever to stay as close to the mathematics of counting and betting as humanly possible, because that's all you've got.

PS - It's nice talking with you away from the Zen Zone and politics.

Well it's nice either way. I don't have tons of experience at card counting but seem to have the technical grasp well enough down. It seems a matter of merely keeping my eyes on the road.

I will avoid all political and economic discussion on these main boards save and except for the following statement which won't be repeated. Thank you very much.

Note: I am impeccably well researched on all matters political, economic and environmental. Was a Sierra Club activist for fifteen years and watched the Senate and House attempt to avoid making any positive energy policy decisions that would help America. And when they did come through with sound legislation the Reagan and Bush I leadership always threated a veto. It's the reason we're all in the sewer now.

In another decade I proudly ripped off the republican party for several hundred thousand dollars. Technically it was a legal scam in those days but likely illegal if I did it again today. Would have to figure ways of bending the rules. Probably worth a shot at the game again but I won't likely do it. Reason? It's like the way the casinos changed the rulles and went to larger shoes. All done to prevent earnings from their marks.

Fund raising tends to be a scam all the way around in the GOP. That's what made it so fun. However today there is too much of a "House edge" for the small time grifter to make good. Kind of a shame in that respect...

 

[aslan]

In another decade I proudly ripped off the republican party for several hundred thousand dollars. Technically it was a legal scam in those days but likely illegal if I did it again today.

I hope there wern't any taxpayer dollars involved.

 

[ihate17]

counting is the easy part

Sorry to hear of this but thank you for your honesty. I agree whole heartedly. Can relate perfectly to the "avoid the casino" until my head clears idea.

The way i intend to deal with my own recent loss is to wait a few weeks or a month and practice flat betting the minimum except where advised to go higher and ONLY when the deck shows a clear advantage. While my cards were not favorable last Saturday night my mindset was more the problem than the playing conditions.

Had I bet perfectly I still would have had a losing evening but not a near disaster. So the problem was largely psychological and disciplinary. In my own case that is.

One of my favorite statements is that learning to count is the easiest part of being a long term winner. Control over your human weaknesses while appearing to the casino staff that you are not quite in control is the hard part for most of us.
If you know yourself and you know that you will not just appear to steam as an act, but in fact steam and overbet after a series of bad beats, taking time away from the casino can add to your mental health. Most blackjack books just can not deal with this subject.

So, if you feel the best move for you is time away from the tables, you are most likely correct.

ihate17

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Aside to Alsan; hahahah. that's good. No tax payer dollars were spent.

One of my favorite statements is that learning to count is the easiest part of being a long term winner. Control over your human weaknesses while appearing to the casino staff that you are not quite in control is the hard part for most of us.
If you know yourself and you know that you will not just appear to steam as an act, but in fact steam and overbet after a series of bad beats, taking time away from the casino can add to your mental health. Most blackjack books just can not deal with this subject.

So, if you feel the best move for you is time away from the tables, you are most likely correct.

ihate17

Fine line between being a card player and gambler. At least at first. While a little new to the game I compare the game to back when I was making the move from amateur musician to professional. The humiliation both imagined and sometimes real can drag at the nerves.

Difference is, of course, that I do not make my living as a card counter, nor have to. Not yet anyway. Probably will never have to rely on my earnings at the table. Never the less the feeling is the same.

When i first started playing the trumpet professionally it really bothered me if i played a small mistake or blew an out of tune note. Most the time the audience was too drunk to notice or care, but it worked at my head. I'd leave the club at the end of the night depressed as all hell. This made the next day rough to begin with. Took almost a couple years before i clearly enjoyed the experience.

Some people I know who gamble have told me to take frequent breaks. Poker players and even video and slot players where there is no edge at all. They say they get obsessed and screw up. Or at least stop enjoying themselves.

I get obsessed too and lose the ability to make the easy decisions at cards. More needs to be focussed on this subject i think. Or perhaps it's a "sink or swim" combination.

Interesting how Kevin Blackwood describes himself as "being lucky to win often enough in my early years" or something like that.

I believe my temporary failures probably teach me more.

When i entered the construction field I learned a helluva lot more from my screw ups than my successes...

 

[Automatic Monkey]

One of my favorite statements is that learning to count is the easiest part of being a long term winner. Control over your human weaknesses while appearing to the casino staff that you are not quite in control is the hard part for most of us.
If you know yourself and you know that you will not just appear to steam as an act, but in fact steam and overbet after a series of bad beats, taking time away from the casino can add to your mental health. Most blackjack books just can not deal with this subject.

So, if you feel the best move for you is time away from the tables, you are most likely correct.

ihate17

That's the idea. Unlike a ploppy we sit down at the table with great expectations and our world can be turned upside down when it's not as easy as it is on our simulators. We're by far the most intelligent people in this casino environment intended to appeal to the low-minded, and that's stressful too. Long hours, and sometimes we accidentally get a little alcohol in our mouths.

I always try to remember that you can dig yourself out of a hole just as fast as you got into the hole, just by sticking with the game plan. Never had a steaming problem myself, but I have let the stress get to me in other ways.

Here's something that might help- look up the term "Cleveland Steamer." Next time you steam, picture yourself doing that. You might never do it again! :joker:

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Really wish you hadn't told me that...