Craps back wall

[ragroller]

So today i started practicing DI throwing, my question is although ive never played craps in real life before my question is :

1. Do BOTH dice must hit the back wall to make it count as a throw?
2. If you throw the dice short enough so it just kisses the bottom of the back wall does it count as a throw?

3. Does it count as a throw if you hit the back wall first?

Thanks

 

[ChefJJ]

My take on your questions is:

1) It depends where you are at and how friendly the crew is. Toking can help with some tolerance of being short or "light" as I call it. As a rule of thumb, though, both dice need to hit the wall...plan for that But you can get away with one or none depending on the aforementioned.

2) Generally, yes. That's how I survive for the most part. But the dice lightly hitting the pyramid section does not necessarily equate to randomization/an off-axis result. Yes, this may sound funny, but I've posted on this via blog from my observations on the practice table and in the casino (totally another topic though).

3) Not sure what this means. Sorry.

good luck

 

[bj bob]

3. Does it count as a throw if you hit the back wall first?

Thanks

I think he means hitting the back wall on the fly, JJ. It's a valid toss, but usually it means that you're throwing too hard and will either hit someone's hand, stack or drink and make a mess so the pit will tell you to kick it down a notch.

 

[ChefJJ]

Gotcha, Bob. I agree with that for sure.

Another caution would be to practice a throw that does not arc excessively high...that can be flagged by the crew just as much as short tosses. The rule of thumb you often hear at the table is to keep the dice below the stickman's eye level, but that can be overlooked too.

good luck

 

[callipygian]

I believe that the letter of the law is that you have to hit the bumpy part of the wall. So anything less than that risks an invalidated roll to some degree, the only question is whether anyone's going to speak up about it.

(a) I've never seen anyone get yelled at for bouncing the dice off of the mirror.
(b) I've seen someone chastised for lightly bouncing the dice off the wall multiple times in a row.
(c) I've seen people chastised (but rarely) for not having both dice hit the back wall, even if it was a single occurrence in an otherwise string of completely valid rolls. Usually (in my limited experience) they'll let it slide the first or second time, and then start correcting.

 

[SuperTrump]

I believe that the letter of the law is that you have to hit the bumpy part of the wall. So anything less than that risks an invalidated roll to some degree, the only question is whether anyone's going to speak up about it.

(a) I've never seen anyone get yelled at for bouncing the dice off of the mirror.
(b) I've seen someone chastised for lightly bouncing the dice off the wall multiple times in a row.
(c) I've seen people chastised (but rarely) for not having both dice hit the back wall, even if it was a single occurrence in an otherwise string of completely valid rolls. Usually (in my limited experience) they'll let it slide the first or second time, and then start correcting.

It is for precisely the reasons that you state in points (b) and (c) that makes me think that craps is unbeatable in almost all casinos. You simply won't be able to get away with it long enough to make it worth your while, especially if you are winning a lot. Also, I still find it impossible to believe you can maintain trajectory and axis following a collision with the pyramids.

 

[ChefJJ]

There are places that will sweat suspected dice APs a whole lot more than others. It's really no different than the varying levels of heat one will experience from one joint to another.

good luck

BTW, as I've mentioned before, dice striking the pyramid wall does not necessarily result in an on-axis roll. Looking at some slo-mo rolls, soft impact can actually impart sidespin like how a top spins. Which, when you think about it...aw hell, you can either do it or you can't

 

[callipygian]

You simply won't be able to get away with it long enough to make it worth your while, especially if you are winning a lot.

Assuming that on-axis rolling can be done at all (which is still somewhat of a question in my mind), you don't need to successfully do it all the time in order to gain an advantage.

As a matter of fact, being able to accurately throw the dice on-axis every single roll gives you a whopping +0.70 EV per comeout: at 50 come-outs per hour and $10 per bet, that's $350/hr. You actually only need to throw the dice accurately 1 time in 36 in order to break even on craps; even throwing on-axis 1 time in 10 will handily give you a $65,000 yearly salary playing $10 craps.

 

[Katweezel]

Dice Man

Assuming that on-axis rolling can be done at all (which is still somewhat of a question in my mind), you don't need to successfully do it all the time in order to gain an advantage.As a matter of fact, being able to accurately throw the dice on-axis every single roll gives you a whopping +0.70 EV per comeout: at 50 come-outs per hour and $10 per bet, that's $350/hr. You actually only need to throw the dice accurately 1 time in 36 in order to break even on craps; even throwing on-axis 1 time in 10 will handily give you a $65,000 yearly salary playing $10 craps.

Hey Calli, can you go over those figures again mate? They look too good to be true! So juicy... If they are right, I am going back with throwing practice! How does it look if I play $50 craps? Do I multiply 65 by 5? :cat:

 

[ragroller]

Hey Calli, can you go over those figures again mate? They look too good to be true! So juicy... If they are right, I am going back with throwing practice! How does it look if I play $50 craps? Do I multiply 65 by 5? :cat:

i agree , where on earth did those numbers come from , $10 for 60k lol

for

"You simply won't be able to get away with it long enough to make it worth your while, especially if you are winning a lot" ,

your not going to get in trouble if you can win a few hundred consistantly, they wont even notice it .

 

[ragroller]

can someone please explain to me when casinos say they offer 10x odds in craps? what are they referring to ?

 

[ChefJJ]

The Odds bet is a wager that one can make in conjunction with either the Pass, Come, Don't Pass, or Don't Come bets. If you have made one or more of these bets, and a point number has been established for it, you have the option of either "taking" Odds (for the Pass or Come) or "laying" Odds (for the Don't versions).

The hallmark of the Odds bet is that it pays to the true odds of the point number being rolled. I.e. the wager has no house edge associated with it whatsoever...which is why many call it the "best bet in the house." :cool2:

The 10X figure means that if you were to have a $10 Pass Line bet, you are allowed to take Odds in an amount up to $100 (10 times your line bet). When playing the Don't bets, it actually works out to be the opposite since you are looking for the 7 to roll, hence you are in a position of advantage. Therefore, you must lay more money to win less, and the 10X multiplier applies to the amount you stand to win when laying Odds (your wager could only have you winning $100, which is 10 times your line bet).

good luck

PS - If you follow this link, you can check out my chapter on the Odds bet that might do a better job of explaining the ins and outs compared to my quick response above: (Dead link: http://hothandcraps.com/uploads/Chapter_3.pdf) _Chapter 3: Odds Are, It’s a Good Bet_

 

[standard toaster]

Id say you should go play a little craps at first to understand the game. Personally when I started reading about it it semed very confusing. My first time at the table proved that well it was. But after I was there for about 10 min it all became pretty clear. The problem about the game is the excessive use of slang words and nicknames given to all the actions at the table. Here are a few for example

Hop aka hopping, on the hop, skipping, jumping or number specified(6,6 3,2 5,1)- A bet that a specified number will show on the next roll.

Yo (Yo-leven) Slang used for the number eleven.

Boxcars/ Hi/ All the spots we got- A bet on the 12.
Hi / Lo/Yo A bet on the 12, 2 and eleven.

1 and 2- Cross eyes / Cock eyes / Ace-deuce / Ace caught a deuce /Phoebe / Little Phoebe


"choppy"- Inconsistent Passes and Misses with no good runs of winning throws.

C & E- A bet that the next roll will be 2, 3, or 11.

Buffalo- A bet on each Hard Way and Any Seven.

Big red/any 7- A bet that the next roll will be a 7. Craps payers are very supersticious and you should never say the word 7.. it will piss them off. Unlike blackjack saying the word 7 can not get you an advnantage so just go with the table and keep everyone happy.

The list goes on forever.....

 

[bj bob]

More craps slang

Id say you should go play a little craps at first to understand the game. Personally when I started reading about it it semed very confusing. My first time at the table proved that well it was. But after I was there for about 10 min it all became pretty clear. The problem about the game is the excessive use of slang words and nicknames given to all the actions at the table. Here are a few for example

Hop aka hopping, on the hop, skipping, jumping or number specified(6,6 3,2 5,1)- A bet that a specified number will show on the next roll.

Yo (Yo-leven) Slang used for the number eleven.

Boxcars/ Hi/ All the spots we got- A bet on the 12.
Hi / Lo/Yo A bet on the 12, 2 and eleven.

1 and 2- Cross eyes / Cock eyes / Ace-deuce / Ace caught a deuce /Phoebe / Little Phoebe


"choppy"- Inconsistent Passes and Misses with no good runs of winning throws.

C & E- A bet that the next roll will be 2, 3, or 11.

Buffalo- A bet on each Hard Way and Any Seven.

Big red/any 7- A bet that the next roll will be a 7. Craps payers are very supersticious and you should never say the word 7.. it will piss them off. Unlike blackjack saying the word 7 can not get you an advnantage so just go with the table and keep everyone happy.

The list goes on forever.....

And while we're at it:
Little Joe: #4
All day bets: Hardways
Press: Double your last bet vs. parlay
Pair of squares: Hard 8
Skinny Doogan: 7
Midnight: 12

 

[ChefJJ]

Id say you should go play a little craps at first to understand the game. Personally when I started reading about it it semed very confusing. My first time at the table proved that well it was. But after I was there for about 10 min it all became pretty clear. The problem about the game is the excessive use of slang words and nicknames given to all the actions at the table.

I agree with ST, the best way to learn is to experience the game is to be part of it. Ask questions, watch, listen, and learn.

good luck

 

[Katweezel]

Horny

I agree with ST, the best way to learn is to experience the game is to be part of it. Ask questions, watch, listen, and learn.

good luck

How about: "See a horn, bet a horn?" :cat:

 

[ragroller]

so if i placed $10 on the pass line , im able to say full odds on the pass line and place more money ?

 

[ChefJJ]

so if i placed $10 on the pass line , im able to say full odds on the pass line and place more money ?

You don't really say "full odds"...you just put your money down behind the Pass Line bet. The Odds bet is not marked on the layout.

good luck

 

[Thunder]

Craps question

So Chef,
Is it safe to say then that the best thing one can do each time is to place a bet on the don't pass line and then lay odds?

 

[ChefJJ]

Thunder,

First off, I have to admit that I do not play from the Don'ts except in rare occasions.

With that in mind, the difference in house edge between the Pass Line (PL) and Don't Pass (DP) bets is five hundredths of a percent, with the DP having the upper hand there. An important thing to bear in mind is that each of these bets gives the player an advantage for a certain period of time: the PL during the come-out roll, and the DP once the point is established.

This is why the PL player's Odds bet will pay "extra"...the amount of which corresponds to the disadvantage of the point number coming before the 7. Conversely, the DP player's Odds bet is dampened by the fact that you have the 7 working for you, and you pay extra for that.

This is one reason why I gravitate towards the Pass Line when wagering on random shooters. Having to lay $40 to win $20 on a point of 4 doesn't seem that appetizing, even if there is a 2-1 advantage in your favor. There are other reasons as well, but not for this discussion.

To make the long story short: the black-and-white house edge numbers say that the Don'ts have a 0.05% edge over the Do's, but the Odds are a wash.

good luck