Teams?

[Automatic Monkey]

your approach brings to mind an interesting side issue. understanding the idea of Eliott Jacobson's " the blackjack zone" is i believe related to your thinking on your lifetime play test. doubtless such considerations are crucial. perhaps it's because i'm crossing over into the 'golden age zone' and have only just been playing blackjack for less than two years that i have an interest in and am prompted towards considering shorter term issues than the long term. i mean i believe even some one in my circumstance should base ones planning with respect to advantage play upon long term prospects however one such as myself naturally is going to be interested in ones shorter term prospects.
i suppose this is where mathematical approachs such as N0 would be of interest to guys in my circumstances.
additionally i find my self curious as to what degree advantage play yielding say about 1.5% advantage impacts short term prospects. i suppose standard deviation is what can help one gain some cognizance with regard to that issue. any one have any comments or thoughts regarding this?

best regards,
mr fr0g

In a way being older can help the mathematics of your game, assuming you are playing with only your own money. If you die before you reach an N0 or get even with the game, God will forgive you. However if you are in your 20's and you run up debts due to blackjack, your creditors will not be so forgiving. Therefore if I were of the age where I could not be reasonably certain of being able to spend or enjoy the money, I would play more aggressively, but only with money not intended for any other purpose.

 

[sagefr0g]

In a way being older can help the mathematics of your game, assuming you are playing with only your own money. If you die before you reach an N0 or get even with the game, God will forgive you. However if you are in your 20's and you run up debts due to blackjack, your creditors will not be so forgiving. Therefore if I were of the age where I could not be reasonably certain of being able to spend or enjoy the money, I would play more aggressively, but only with money not intended for any other purpose.

that's a great perspective that you put forth. funny how an objective viewpoint can cut through the confusion. i likely shall start pushing the envelope a bit pretty soon. good fortune has increased my bankroll as of late. also i'm lucky in that to some degree i can replenish to some extent if lady luck turns fickle for a while.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[bluewhale]

Hey Sonny, You are technically correct in the fact we don't get extra advantage playing the way we do. What we do get is the assurance that we will never be off with our bets or become sloppy. By sizing decks to the quarter there is never a chance we will get complacement with throwing what we estimate the correct bet is. Its really just about playing a strong game with very little error. Its like overkill on anything else, just because you don't need it doesn't mean you should'nt have it. Since I do play with a team, and it is a shared bankroll, playing as we do requires a skill level that we can be confident translates well to superior table play. As you know playing on a team requires trust, and its easy trust someones play when you know they have more than enough knowledge to play the game.

Now I have nothing to do with training others aside from those that play on my team. But from what I've learned from people who do train others is if you do only the minimum of what it takes to get the advantage, than thats what you'll get. Even worse is that with lax training methods comes increasingly poor play, usually unknown to the player. Mike Aponte is a friend of mine and is an avid weight lifter aside from being a world class blackjack player. He explains it like this, if you train in the gym and you can lift 400 lbs thats great, and you probably won't ever be called on to lift that much in the real world, but everything else you need to lift becomes much easier, so that extra effort in the gym pays off with out having to max out your capablities in real situations. Thats about all I can say about why we play the way we do, its really the only way we know how.

Wow, i have to say that i REALLY like your analogy of the body builder. I gotta start practicing more before i hit the tables. I finally managed to build a sizable bankroll (I had posted here about 4 months ago saying i wanted to start counting but only had about a grand), now i'm probably up to 10 and growing rapidly. I just need to get better at counting b4 i hit the count. But honestly, I don't think that counting on a red table can turn any kind of reasonable profit, i'm just doing it to get the experience I need to hit the bigger money tables.

 

[shadroch]

Counting while playing red chips with a decent spread WILL NOT return any sort of decent profit.But,it will give you the confidence to know that you are able to beat the game.It will also allow you to go thru the inevitable dry spells and still bounce back.
The size of your bankroll is secondary,to learning the right methods of play.
Having a 10G bankroll but playing incorrectly is worse than having a $500 one.

 

[sagefr0g]

Counting while playing red chips with a decent spread WILL NOT return any sort of decent profit.

i agree excepting for special cases. 'decent profit' can be a rather subjective term. certainly in the case of a professional the red chip games provide relatively meager profits but i would think they would be considered better than nothing in some circumstances. in a case such as mine (ie. the rec/ap) red chip tables and lower are just the ticket. i can have fun, not risk to much and supplement my retirement income to the point where i'm pretty darn close to bringing in what i used to make working significant hours of overtime.

But,it will give you the confidence to know that you are able to beat the game.It will also allow you to go thru the inevitable dry spells and still bounce back.

that has been my experience

The size of your bankroll is secondary,to learning the right methods of play.
Having a 10G bankroll but playing incorrectly is worse than having a $500 one.

again i think we are in some 'subjective' territory here. ROR is kind of a concept that allows one to decide what am i comfortable with. thats for me a kind of a stumbling block as i'm extremely reluctant to lose any money regardless of if i'm able to happily live with out it or not but at the same time i'm wanting to forge ahead and rake in as much profit as possible.
doubtless you are right on about playing correctly. perhaps when it comes to bankroll size and the question of correct play one can say the bigger they are the harder they fall .

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Sonny]

Counting while playing red chips with a decent spread WILL NOT return any sort of decent profit.

Well, that depends. I was recently spreading $5-$30 with an EV of $25 per hour. I wasn't getting rich, but I consider that to be a decent profit. Also, my tiny bet spread was flying WAY under the radar so I could play as long as I wanted without any heat. That probably isn't enough to keep most serious players happy, but it was good enough for me. I guess it all depends on how you value your time and effort.

Having a 10G bankroll but playing incorrectly is worse than having a $500 one.

AMEN! I certainly made lots of mistakes during my first year of play. Luckily they only cost me a fraction of my $3 bets. At $100 a pop those mistakes will really hurt your bank account! :cry:

-Sonny-

 

[shogun]

I was recently spreading $5-$30 with an EV of $25 per hour.

Wow, how did you manage that EV from that spread?

 

[shadroch]

For the year,with spreads of 5-20, I'm averaging about $7 an hour.That includes using MPs and taking advantage of various promos.
BUT,even with my rooms being comped and many meals as well,I'm taking money out of my pocket for airfare,rental cars or taxis.Had I stayed home and never played,I'd be ahead at this point.
But the confidence I've gained in a few short months of improving my BJ has gotten me to the point where I'll be playing $10-$50 on my December trip.
$10 right off the bat,5-10 in neutral or slightly bad counts and $25-50 in good counts.I expect I'll soon be playing for profit.

 

[Sonny]

Wow, how did you manage that EV from that spread?

Actually, I have Shadroch to thank for that! He mentioned the "Race for the Ace" promotion at the Plaza and Vegas Club in an earlier post:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3485

My EV with a 1-6 spread was about $10 plus about $20 from the promo. Actually, the promo was much better than I thought. If you get an ace as a hit card it still counts towards the promotion. Also, you don't need to make a bet on top of the matchplay coupon. You can let the $5 coupon play by itself if you want. It was a pretty sweet deal.

-Sonny-