Downtown Vegas Report

shadroch said:
104 cards in a DD shoe. If the red card was placed at the 2/3 mark, and comes out early in the round, you'll get another fifteen or twenty cards or so that round with a full table. So if the Red card was the 67th card in the shoe, you end up with about 80 to 85 out of 104 cards dealt. The only way you get 66% percent penetration is if the red card is the next to last card dealt that round.
Or do you measure penetration a different way?
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the first way is correct. if the cut card is placed at the 2/3 mark, that is considered 66%. yes you get another 15 or so cards on a full table. it's the same way for 75%. Placed at the 3/4 mark with 26 cards left. on a full table, that could mean playing it down to about 5-10 cards left!!!! I can't imagine any place in vegas being that generous with pen. In general also, if it is a notch, they will almost always be 66%. I've only seen joints outside of vegas that would occasionally have dealer dependent pen with the dealer giving 75%.
 
21forme said:
You beat me to it.

I know east coast guys salivate at the thought of a DD game (recall how Trop AC's 4D game became a counter convention) , but in my experience, a good shoe game is just as good, if not better, and gives you the advantage of additional longevity, less heat, more hands per hour (less shuffling), etc.
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I played 8D for the first time today. the DD game at "the place" had 3 players already. I played the 8D heads up and got my ass kicked.

The reason why I chose to finally play it today was because of the fact that I could get more hands/hr. 360@8D vs 80@DD. I timed it and simmed the results. NOW here's the thing. yes the winrate is much bigger at the 8D, and the DD rate has now dwindled pathetically. BUT!!! I would still rather play the DD full table because the original SCORE and N0 for both games have not really changed. SCORE of 45 vs 90. not to mention the fact that 8D is a brutal game to begin with. there are tons more little cards in the shoe, and this fact makes it much easier for the dealer to make their hands, not bust,or get a 21. I would double 10v6 and the dealer would get 17 and I would get 13 or something. stand on 13v5, dealer would make 17. stand on 15v2, dealer would make 18. I almost think you're supposed to hit everything since there are so many little cards in the shoe!

The dealers even looked at me funny when they saw me playing the 8D. "I thought you only play the DD game?" "i'm telling ya, stick with the DD game." after that brutal session, I played the DD game with the 3 other players and made it all back plus more.
 
Jack_Black said:
I played 8D for the first time today. the DD game at "the place" had 3 players already. I played the 8D heads up and got my ass kicked.

The reason why I chose to finally play it today was because of the fact that I could get more hands/hr. 360@8D vs 80@DD. I timed it and simmed the results. NOW here's the thing. yes the winrate is much bigger at the 8D, and the DD rate has now dwindled pathetically. BUT!!! I would still rather play the DD full table because the original SCORE and N0 for both games have not really changed. SCORE of 45 vs 90. not to mention the fact that 8D is a brutal game to begin with. there are tons more little cards in the shoe, and this fact makes it much easier for the dealer to make their hands, not bust,or get a 21. I would double 10v6 and the dealer would get 17 and I would get 13 or something. stand on 13v5, dealer would make 17. stand on 15v2, dealer would make 18. I almost think you're supposed to hit everything since there are so many little cards in the shoe!

The dealers even looked at me funny when they saw me playing the 8D. "I thought you only play the DD game?" "i'm telling ya, stick with the DD game." after that brutal session, I played the DD game with the 3 other players and made it all back plus more.
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I am going the other way around. Being a Jersey boy and only played in AC, I have never seen double deck before. (I now live in a place without casino nearby. So I only played Blackjack a few times when I visited Las Vegas in the past 10 years. Even in LV, I played 6 decks because that is what I used to play.) Even at home for my practicing session, from the beginning, I set my computer to 6D/8D to simulate the same environment I play at casino. So, I never played DD until about 2 weeks ago. Being bored, I changed the computer settings to double deck H17. My God. I can't believe it. The game becomes so easy. I won most of the times. There is no more long boring session that true count stays under +2 so I have to bet one unit. Now my question is that, where can I play double deck in east coast? I certainly will triple my winning with my new discovery.
 
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BJgenius007 said:
I am going the other way around. Being a Jersey boy and only played in AC, I have never seen double deck before. (I now live in a place without casino nearby. So I only played Blackjack a few times when I visited Las Vegas in the past 10 years. Even in LV, I played 6 decks because that is what I used to play.) Even at home for my practicing session, from the beginning, I set my computer to 6D/8D to simulate the same environment I play at casino. So, I never played DD until about 2 weeks ago. Being bored, I changed the computer settings to double deck H17. My God. I can't believe it. The game becomes so easy. I won most of the times. There is no more long boring session that true count stays under +2 so I have to bet one unit. Now my question is that, where can I play double deck in east coast? I certainly will triple my winning with my new discovery.
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Oh no you've got the fever. 8-deckers become the most boring thing ever after DD. :laugh:
 
BJgenius007 said:
I am going the other way around. Being a Jersey boy and only played in AC, I have never seen double deck before. (I now live in a place without casino nearby. So I only played Blackjack a few times when I visited Las Vegas in the past 10 years. Even in LV, I played 6 decks because that is what I used to play.) Even at home for my practicing session, from the beginning, I set my computer to 6D/8D to simulate the same environment I play at casino. So, I never played DD until about 2 weeks ago. Being bored, I changed the computer settings to double deck H17. My God. I can't believe it. The game becomes so easy. I won most of the times. There is no more long boring session that true count stays under +2 so I have to bet one unit. Now my question is that, where can I play double deck in east coast? I certainly will triple my winning with my new discovery.
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Don't get too euphoric. DD can kick your behind just like 6-8 decks can, and do it faster.
 
Shoofly said:
Don't get too euphoric. DD can kick your behind just like 6-8 decks can, and do it faster.
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Agreed. Jack, didn't you tell me you've had some major neg variance over the last month? Wasn't that all DD?

Jack, you did the right thing (playing the shoe), given the situation. Your other option would have been leaving and playing elsewhere.
 
21forme said:
Agreed. Jack, didn't you tell me you've had some major neg variance over the last month? Wasn't that all DD?

Jack, you did the right thing (playing the shoe), given the situation. Your other option would have been leaving and playing elsewhere.
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actually, it was small but very long. LOVE HO2. each session had small losses, 10-20 max bets. and it was 40 hours of straight losing until it all turned around in a 6 hour session. I won ten max bets in 30 minutes, sheesh! this might start to sound like ploppy talk, but during my losing session, it was mostly the dealers getting 20, while I got hands of 17,18,19. So the tens were coming out, just not at the right time.

in a shoe game, there are just so many cards that a high TC doesn't necessarily mean the tens will come out right away. Example: lets compare if both a shoe game and DD had TC +10. the DD game might have it with 1 deck left, the shoe might have it with 2-3 decks left. so you can see that the high TC in the shoe game won't be as accurate in the DD game. which is exactly what happened when I played shoe, the TC skyrocketed, but the tens weren't coming out as predicted.

I do know that the variance is less on the shoe games, but one reason is that the TC stays flat for so long. I guess it is nice that when the TC is high on a shoe game, it can stay that way for awhile. but DD has such a rollercoaster of TCs that it kinda excites me to watch it. It FEELS like gambling.

all in all, I'm just trying to say that the 2 games are quite different, have different pros and cons, and I just fully hijacked this thread.:grin:
 
Just got back from the EC and it is indeed double any two cards on SD. As far as I remember it was DAS too, but I could be mistaken on that.
 
WABJ11 said:
Just got back from the EC and it is indeed double any two cards on SD. As far as I remember it was DAS too, but I could be mistaken on that.
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The day that changes, well, as Steely Dan said in 71, "California, crumbles into the sea..."
 
aslan said:
Whew! Yes, indeed! Booked a flight and now I canceled it! :joker:

Anyone know the HA on the SD game?
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Aslan,
Something like .18% supposedly, some may say as much as .30%. Personally, I think EC has a much larger advantage for those who are naive to technology. I would much rather play pitch games at one or two other places downtown;)
 
forwhat77 said:
Aslan,
Something like .18% supposedly, some may say as much as .30%. Personally, I think EC has a much larger advantage for those who are naive to technology. I would much rather play pitch games at one or two other places downtown;)
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At .18% it wouldn't take much to swing it your way right under the nose of surveillance. They must take great pride in their sniffing ability. I'll have to try it and see how long I last next trip. :)
 
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