dice control

rdorange said:
What numbers make up the Flying V or Big V? The sets I refer to may be these, but I just use a different name for them.
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It's big for 6 & 8...strong enough numbers to place, but if you can get an edge on them, they can be a big payday. The probabilities work out to:

7: 2 ways
6/8: 3 ways each
5/9: 2 ways each
4/10: 1 way each
3/11: 1 way each

It's also nice if you have an inside number point.

good luck
 
Set discription

My 3-V: top left die 2, top right die 6, face the rear wall left die 3, face the rear wall right die 3.
 
rdorange said:
My 3-V: top left die 2, top right die 6, face the rear wall left die 3, face the rear wall right die 3.
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That sounds about right...if the 3's line up to where they form a V, that's it. Of course, there's multiple ways to put the dice to make the same set...but that's a good indicator.

It's a primo set.
 
3-v

When I throw the 3-V on top, I seven out with a very high percentage. If I rotate the die together on axis, one time (2/6 on top), my results are different. Does this make sense? Does this rotation matter?

My total combined overall roll percentage for seven is 15.89%.
My percentage of seven rolled on my 3-V set is 17.37%.
Therefore I seldom use this as one of my sets.
 
rdorange said:
When I throw the 3-V on top, I seven out with a very high percentage. If I rotate the die together on axis, one time (2/6 on top), my results are different. Does this make sense? Does this rotation matter?

My total combined overall roll percentage for seven is 15.89%.
My percentage of seven rolled on my 3-V set is 17.37%.
Therefore I seldom use this as one of my sets.
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3V, Flying V, Big V should all be the same set. (It's tough doing this without pictures.)

It is the same set if the only rotation you do during setup is on axis. So, you shouldn't really be seeing a big difference either way. Sounds like you need to combine your results from the two, since it is the same axis you are basing it on.

If you are getting an extra amount of 7s with the 3V, then the dice aren't staying on axis much at all. In theory, you're looking at a 12.5% chance of rolling a 7 (which is as good as it gets for any set), but it's big on inside numbers (50%), and cuts out a lot of junk numbers.

My 2 cents is that practice should consist of a lot of keeping dice on axis, and not worrying so much about the set and result. Think of it this way...if you can routinely have a consistent on-axis throw, your results will follow.

good luck
 
AsparaChief said:
I just wanted to give ChefJJ some props on his blog. From beginner to advanced it was really interesting and informative and very well written.

Check it out: http://hothandcraps.blogspot.com

Thanks ChefJJ

-chief
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Hey Chief, much appreciated. It started out as a way to "teach" some good friends how to know the game of craps. Of course, it has just become a way to look at various topics as they come up (from myself, friends, or others who ask me). I do it for fun and just as a way to share what I have learned, what I have researched, and some of my opinions over the last 10 years or so.

good luck
 
Compare the 3-V vs the 2-V

The All 7, 3-V and 2-V for the ratio of sevens is a dramatic difference.
Overall combined sevens thrown is 15.89%.
All 7 set, sevens thrown is 18.74%.
3-V set, sevens thrown is 17.37%.
2-V set, sevens thrown is 13.87%.
Other sets include: the Hardway at 14.88%, 5 & 9 at 14.63% and the 9 & 5 at 16.22%.
After I establish a point, the set I use the most has become the 2-V. As you can see, I roll the least percentage of sevens with this set, thus extending the time I can throw.
The percentages for all the points with the 2-V are, in order:
8 overall combined 13.73% vs 2-V 14.66%.
6 overall combined 13.73% vs 2-V 14.32%.
5 overall combined 11.82% vs 2-V 11.84%
9 overall combined 11.16% vs 2-V 10.71%.
4 overall combined 8.71% vs 2-V 9.70%.
10 overall combined 8.30% vs 2-V 8.0%.
I have not shown the 2,3,11,or 12 for obvious reasons.

Armed with this data, When I establish a point, the best way to make money is to roll a long time, even if I don't make the point. The way to make money is to bet my best % and limit my losses by not betting and wasting loosing money on worthless or below percentage numbers.
With this example, when I throw the 2-V, I would defintely place bet 8 and 6, and with each hit press one unit. I might place the 5, but probably would not press this bet. I would not bet on the 9 and 10. I would also bet on the 4 and would press one unit with it also.
Whew!
 
Good stuff rdo. I like the 2V set next to the 3V set personally, for the same reasons you lean that way.

On the come out, which set do you prefer? Looks like All 7s is what you would lean towards with the high pct of 7s. I like the Hardway for the come out because of the high prob of 7s and very low (none if kept on axis) craps numbers.

Keep rollin' them bones.
 
All sevens

ChefJJ said:
On the come out, which set do you prefer? Looks like All 7s is what you would lean towards with the high pct of 7s.
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My personal highest percentage set for the seven is my all 7 set.
The top left die on 3 and the top right die on 4.
The rear wall left die on 1 and the rear wall right die on 6.

I always use this set on my come out roll.

Some additional interesting numbers, on my all sevens set I roll high percentages of 5, 6 and 9. After my come out roll, these are a majority of the time my point.
5 @ 12.94%
6 @ 12.94%
9 @ 12.44%
These three % are higher than each of their own total combined %. To me that is interesting!
 
I may be wrong!

rdorange said:
I am adding a new bet to my strategy based on the percentages of numbers I throw with different sets. I only lay these bets during my own rolls.
The overall pecentage of the 7 showing on all my rolls and sets combined is 15.89%.
The percentage of 7 showing on the all 7 set is 18.75%.
The percentage of 4 showing on the all 7 set is 7.96%.
The percentage of 10 showing on the all 7 set is 8.13%.
Therefore, during the come out roll (using the all 7 set) I bet the pass line and I lay the no 4 and no 10 (for $40 each). I have three ways of winning, and can only lose one of the two lay bets at a time. After the point is established, I pull both lay bets down.

Does this make sense? I have been testing it while I practice, and it appears to work real well. I do occasionally roll 4 or 10 on the come out, and lose one of the bets.

Anything I have overlooked that may cause this not float?
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The actual event occurs the correct amount of times, my problem appears to be with the pay off. The 1:2 is not enough to overcome the amount lost when the 4 and 10 are thrown on the come out roll. Have I said that right?:confused: I have been practicing and seem to have been losing as I incorporate these bets.:( Is there something I have miscalculated or interpreted wrong? Or am I just on a bad run?:eek: My percentages don't seem to have changed.
 
rdorange said:
The actual event occurs the correct amount of times, my problem appears to be with the pay off. The 1:2 is not enough to overcome the amount lost when the 4 and 10 are thrown on the come out roll. Have I said that right?:confused: I have been practicing and seem to have been losing as I incorporate these bets.:( Is there something I have miscalculated or interpreted wrong? Or am I just on a bad run?:eek: My percentages don't seem to have changed.
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To be absolutely honest with you, if you are having troubles rolling 4 & 10s with any set and that is your point...nothing says you have to take odds. If you have stronger numbers that you roll, bet those instead. It's all about betting to your strengths, and you have to bet the line if your shooting.

good luck
 
rdorange said:
What numbers make up the Flying V or Big V? The sets I refer to may be these, but I just use a different name for them.
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chef, a dealer once told me, while we were playing vp together, that you can lower the house edge using odds, is this possible? or is this just like the double down bet in vp? if it is like that, its hard to say if that lowers the house edge, because you are essentially just betting 1 bet at the regular house edge, and 1 at a 0% house edge, so is that lowering the house edge? if you look at it as money bet to money lost per hour, then yes it would lower the house edge, because you would be playing the majority of your money on the 0% bet.. for instance, in 1 hour of vp: $1000 @ -1% = -$10/hr, but $500 @ -1% + $500 @ 0% = -$5/hr.. now they arent 2 completely seperate bets tho, because if you lose the 50/50 bet, you lose your original bet, but i guess it doesnt matter since its 50/50..
 
SilentBob420BMFJ said:
chef, a dealer once told me, while we were playing vp together, that you can lower the house edge using odds, is this possible? or is this just like the double down bet in vp? if it is like that, its hard to say if that lowers the house edge, because you are essentially just betting 1 bet at the regular house edge, and 1 at a 0% house edge, so is that lowering the house edge? if you look at it as money bet to money lost per hour, then yes it would lower the house edge, because you would be playing the majority of your money on the 0% bet.. for instance, in 1 hour of vp: $1000 @ -1% = -$10/hr, but $500 @ -1% + $500 @ 0% = -$5/hr.. now they arent 2 completely seperate bets tho, because if you lose the 50/50 bet, you lose your original bet, but i guess it doesnt matter since its 50/50..
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Yes you do lower the overall house edge by increasing your odds bet. It's called combination odds and decreases the greater the proportion the odds bet is to your flat bet. There's a complete list on the first page of the Wizard's Crap Section.
 
Those darn 4s and 10s

ChefJJ said:
To be absolutely honest with you, if you are having troubles rolling 4 & 10s with any set and that is your point...nothing says you have to take odds. If you have stronger numbers that you roll, bet those instead. It's all about betting to your strengths, and you have to bet the line if your shooting.

good luck
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I'm not sure I was clear on the post about the 4 and 10. I started to lay the no 4 and no 10 during my come out rolls. My all 7s set on the come out roll appeared to show this as a good % since I roll so many more 7s than 4s and 10s. Well, the numbers don't lie, I was getting more 7s during the come out roll and winning the lay bets at a pay off of 1:2. I received $40 for the $82 at risk. The problem is, I also am rolling 4 and 10 on my come out rolls. Not as frequent as the sevens, but the few times I do roll 4 or 10, I am losing a full wager of $41. After I incorporated this betting procedure, I started to notice my practice Br was shrinking. Something ain't working the way it's supposed to! I think the number of times it occurs is not enough to overcome the risk. In the long run I will lose more than I will win!

Maybe I stated it a little more clear this time, or am I off this time and was I just experiencing some real bad results/luck?

After I establish the point I have no problem. That part of my game is totally profitable. Even if my point is 4 or 10.
 
rdorange said:
The problem is, I also am rolling 4 and 10 on my come out rolls. Not as frequent as the sevens, but the few times I do roll 4 or 10, I am losing a full wager of $41. After I incorporated this betting procedure, I started to notice my practice Br was shrinking. Something ain't working the way it's supposed to! I think the number of times it occurs is not enough to overcome the risk. In the long run I will lose more than I will win!


After I establish the point I have no problem. That part of my game is totally profitable. Even if my point is 4 or 10.
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One way to solve your problem on the come out roll, assuming you're playing $10 flat is to take the 4's ands 10's on the hop. Total layout for both is $4 and will pay avg. $17 if made. I wouldn't keep going with this past the first roll or two since the edge on this bet will kill you.
 
rdorange said:
I'm not sure I was clear on the post about the 4 and 10. I started to lay the no 4 and no 10 during my come out rolls. My all 7s set on the come out roll appeared to show this as a good % since I roll so many more 7s than 4s and 10s. Well, the numbers don't lie, I was getting more 7s during the come out roll and winning the lay bets at a pay off of 1:2. I received $40 for the $82 at risk. The problem is, I also am rolling 4 and 10 on my come out rolls. Not as frequent as the sevens, but the few times I do roll 4 or 10, I am losing a full wager of $41. After I incorporated this betting procedure, I started to notice my practice Br was shrinking. Something ain't working the way it's supposed to! I think the number of times it occurs is not enough to overcome the risk. In the long run I will lose more than I will win!

Maybe I stated it a little more clear this time, or am I off this time and was I just experiencing some real bad results/luck?

After I establish the point I have no problem. That part of my game is totally profitable. Even if my point is 4 or 10.
Click to expand...

Here's my philosophy when it comes to a play like this: if you have the 7 working for you, keep it simple and ride that advantage. If you are using a set that emphasizes the 7 and you are on the Pass Line, stay with that. You're already operating with a high edge to win on a natural...add DC skill to emphasize the 7, and there is an even greater advantage.

So, if you are profitable after the point comes out...why fool around with anything beyond the Pass Line? That's my two cents, and as always...

Good Luck
 
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