BS difference
- Thread starter DSky-
- Start date
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Early surrender is unusual to me so I have no personal experience, but in general, I trust the basic strategy engine at blackjackinfo.com over anything else I find.
I have no vested interest in this site; I found this bulletin board because I used to frequent the BSE.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
With these rules, you're playing with a decideable edge off the top.
Are you sure they're correct?
Re-check Early Sr.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Note: If this Casino, truly is offering TRUE, Early Sr(Its probably by mistake) STOP, what your doing this second and Go clean them out.
Bashful C. Stupid-Butt
Well-Known Member
7 vs A HIT
17 vs A STAND
AA vs A SPLIT
88 vs 10 HIT
11 vs 10 DD
33,66,77,88 vs A SPLIT, HIT, SPLIT, SPLIT
14/15/16 vs 10 [no surrender] HIT/HIT/HIT
17 vs A STAND
AA vs A SPLIT
88 vs 10 HIT
11 vs 10 DD
33,66,77,88 vs A SPLIT, HIT, SPLIT, SPLIT
14/15/16 vs 10 [no surrender] HIT/HIT/HIT
callipygian
Well-Known Member
You mean Surrender/Stand, right? Because almost certainly it should be surrendered with Early Surrender.
Here are the EV's for no surrender, dealer ace, count 0, infinite deck. My intuition says that with early surrender against an ace, you should simply surrender anything where EV*9/13-4/13 < -0.5 => EV < (13/9)*(-0.5+4/13) = -0.278.
Hard 19 (S) : +0.278
Hard 18 (S) : -0.100
Hard 17 (S) : -0.478*
Hard 16 (H) : -0.517*
Hard 15 (H) : -0.480*
Hard 14 (H) : -0.440*
Hard 13 (H) : -0.397*
Hard 12 (H) : -0.351*
Hard 11 (H) : +0.143
Hard 10 (H) : +0.081
Hard 9 (H) : -0.066
Hard 8 (H) : -0.197
Hard 7 (H) : -0.310*
Hard 6 (H) : -0.304*
Hard 5 (H) : -0.279*
Likewise, against a dealer 10, it seems like you should surrender anything with an EV that's less than (13/12)*(-0.5+1/13) = -0.458.
Hard 19 (S) : +0.063
Hard 18 (S) : -0.178
Hard 17 (S) : -0.420
Hard 16 (H) : -0.540*
Hard 15 (H) : -0.504*
Hard 14 (H) : -0.466*
Hard 13 (H) : -0.425
Hard 12 (H) : -0.381
Hard 11 (D) : +0.180
Hard 10 (H) : +0.025
Hard 9 (H) : -0.153
Hard 8 (H) : -0.249
Hard 7 (H) : -0.319
Hard 6 (H) : -0.338
Hard 5 (H) : -0.313
If this method is correct, then I would calculate the following (again, the caveat being this is for infinite deck) :
7 vs A: Surrender/Hit
17 vs A: Surrender/Stand
AA vs A: Split
88 vs 10: Surrender/Split
11 vs 10: Double/Hit
33 vs A: Surrender/Hit
66 vs A: Surrender/Hit
77 vs A: Surrender/Hit
88 vs A: Surrender/Split
14 vs 10: Surrender/Hit
15 vs 10: Surrender/Hit
16 vs 10: Surrender/Hit
You are playing European BJ.
Early Surrender and this website BS Trainer would not be correct to use.
Read up about European BJ.
Bashful C. Stupid-Butt
Well-Known Member
Surrender is something that's not part of my game. I meant stand as in no more cards. Insurance is another gimmick that's not part of my game, however, I did take even money once and the D did not have the 10.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Surrender and Insurance can be very powerful
Perhaps the games in your area do not offer surrender, then it's not being part of your game is understandable, but what if you venture off to Vegas?
Get a max bet count, put out the big bets and get 15 and 16 against the dealer's face knowing that there are few small cards left in the stack. For this reason surrender becomes more valuable to a cardcounter than a BS player, getting half your bet back when the odds against you are huge and you have a max bet out.
Same kind of idea with insurance. At counts of +3 and above, you will have big bets out and insuring when the dealer has a better than 3-1 chance of having a natural will help you.
Even though you do not make money on these hands, the fact that you can lose less or lose nothing (you can lose more on some insurance hands but you are playing the odds) will mean that overall you will make more money in your blackjack life.
ihate17
Perhaps the games in your area do not offer surrender, then it's not being part of your game is understandable, but what if you venture off to Vegas?
Get a max bet count, put out the big bets and get 15 and 16 against the dealer's face knowing that there are few small cards left in the stack. For this reason surrender becomes more valuable to a cardcounter than a BS player, getting half your bet back when the odds against you are huge and you have a max bet out.
Same kind of idea with insurance. At counts of +3 and above, you will have big bets out and insuring when the dealer has a better than 3-1 chance of having a natural will help you.
Even though you do not make money on these hands, the fact that you can lose less or lose nothing (you can lose more on some insurance hands but you are playing the odds) will mean that overall you will make more money in your blackjack life.
ihate17
can someone tell me where can i read more info about the so called "european BJ". over the internet there is no much information...
because i did not specify all the rules here are them:
6 decks shoe game and it is shuffled after every game, dealer stand on soft 17, split everything + resplit allowed. double every 2 cards,
surrender is allowed on 2 cards except VS A, insurance allowed.
can i ask you AP for your analysis and opinion what BS should be used because everywhere it is different. also i would appreciate some hints about what deviations which are appropriate[im not sure also does the illustrous 18 is implicable here].
Thank you
because i did not specify all the rules here are them:
6 decks shoe game and it is shuffled after every game, dealer stand on soft 17, split everything + resplit allowed. double every 2 cards,
surrender is allowed on 2 cards except VS A, insurance allowed.
can i ask you AP for your analysis and opinion what BS should be used because everywhere it is different. also i would appreciate some hints about what deviations which are appropriate[im not sure also does the illustrous 18 is implicable here].
Thank you
Last edited:
I'm not sure, but maybe Ken's explanation in this thread will be helpful.
Do you mean it's shuffled after every round? After shuffling, everyone plays one hand, and then they shuffle again? If so, card counting won't work against that game. Most of us hope at least 4 1/2 decks will be dealt from a six-deck shoe.
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Please clarify
You mean after ALL the players have finished playing their hand, they shuffle right???AKA round)
CSM=continous shuffling machine
it is shuffled after each round not after a hand
You mean after ALL the players have finished playing their hand, they shuffle right???AKA round)
CSM=continous shuffling machine
la_dee_daa
Well-Known Member
...........like comon.... seriously.....................gimmick......... what...........why...... *sigh*.......
Bashful C. Stupid-Butt
Well-Known Member
They don;t have surrender, and even if they did I doubt I would. It not part of my game. I already surrendered to the City and County when I could have declined the 40K and sent it to trial. It would have taken two more year and actually after the fact, that doesn;t seem too bad with the price of gas.
I don;t think I would spent 500 bucks plus a bankroll to play in Vegas when I can spend less than 20 and win here. However there are campground near Vegas and taking a camping trip is a great way to spend some time.
http://www.recreation.gov/homeLeft.do?topTabIndex=CampingSpot
I don;t think I would spent 500 bucks plus a bankroll to play in Vegas when I can spend less than 20 and win here. However there are campground near Vegas and taking a camping trip is a great way to spend some time.
http://www.recreation.gov/homeLeft.do?topTabIndex=CampingSpot