1st Counting Trip

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arizBuckeye

Member
#1
#1
Hello from Phoenix,

My first post to the forum... :)

Background:
I'm a novice! I have been playing blackjack for several years and decided to try counting. I love playing the game but was ignorant to the details of BS. In the past 3 months I have been studying BS and KO. I have read KO BJ several times and read this forum nightly. I try to practice at least an hour a night counting down decks or dealing BJ to myself. I also work about 5 minutes from Casino Arizona and have spent several lunch hours recently sitting back counting in an attempt to submerge myself in the casino environment.

Question:
I am making a trip to Laughlin this Friday to try my first attempt at counting in a casino. Any advice on where to play? I have been there several times but at the time, I had no idea what a good game vs. bad game was. I was one of the guys who didn't realize BJ paying 6:5 was bad. :mad: I'm hoping there are some good games to play as I typically go with my father-in-law once a month in the winter months.

Thanks for the help and I look forward participating in the future.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#2
#2
FIRST RULE -

Do not go to a casino venue to count cards on a busy weekend.

Here are the Laughlin Games for small stakes counting -

Riverside 1D
(This is the ONLY 1D game worth playing and because it only allows double 10-11 w/50% pene you will need to spread 1-7u -or- 1-2x5u)

All the rest are 2D play ONLY - AVI, Flamingo, Pioneer, Ramada, River Palms. zg
 
A

arizBuckeye

Member
#4
#4
zengrifter said:
FIRST RULE -

Do not go to a casino venue to count cards on a busy weekend.
Click to expand...
Is this a rule of thumb because I'm a novice (more distractions and all) or a general rule of thumb because pits are looking for counters? Or do rules change?

zengrifter said:
All the rest are 2D play ONLY - AVI, Flamingo, Pioneer, Ramada, River Palms.
Click to expand...
Are the rules on the 6 and/or 8 deck games poor?

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate your help and advice. Sorry if my questions are a bit basic...
 
A

avs21

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
arizBuckeye said:
Is this a rule of thumb because I'm a novice (more distractions and all) or a general rule of thumb because pits are looking for counters? Or do rules change?
Click to expand...
Problem with busy weekends the tables will be more crowded sometimes hard to get a good spot I never will sit down at first base in a SD or DD game. With more crowded tables they will raise the table min bets usually. I dont' know what your BR is , but if your just starting out I'm guessing you are a red chip or green chip player , so having a higher min bet will be bad. Also more players at the table will decrease your win rate per hour because with more players you will see less hands per hour. Also for your first time it would probably easier to play in a less distracting enviroment. Just noticed from your message you are not using BS deviations, so where you play at the table will not make a difference.
 
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A

arizBuckeye

Member
#7
#7
Thanks for the replies. One last question... :)

I have only been practicing at home dealing myself from a 6 deck shoe. At first the thought of 1D or DD games kind of worried me. But after thinking about it, is it "easier" to count a 1D or DD game in that the game isn't as fast as a shoe game? Do you think this is an acurate statement or way off base? Or, is there anything I should be aware of in regards to pitch games vs. shoes games.

Thanks again...
 
A

avs21

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
arizBuckeye said:
Thanks for the replies. One last question... :)

I have only been practicing at home dealing myself from a 6 deck shoe. At first the thought of 1D or DD games kind of worried me. But after thinking about it, is it "easier" to count a 1D or DD game in that the game isn't as fast as a shoe game? Do you think this is an acurate statement or way off base? Or, is there anything I should be aware of in regards to pitch games vs. shoes games.

Thanks again...
Click to expand...
Pitch games the cards are dealt facedown vs faceup for shoe games. Some people might find that harder, but for SD and DD games if you loose the count you don't have to wait that long for a new shuffle. Pitch games are slower except for you don't have as long to look at cards compared to shoe. I have only seen one place deal face up in pitch game that place is gone now, it has now become one of the worst places to play in LV. If you are friendly a lot of times you can see other player's cards before the dealer picks them up.
 
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shogun

shogun

Member
#9
#9
If you have practiced enough and are good at keeping the count, I don't think the transition from face-up shoe games to face-down pitch games will be that hard, especially if you have played the pitch games before.

My last trip to Vegas was my first as an AP (I was also using KO). The second casino where I attempted counting was one with the DD game with the Lucky Ladies side bet... I was licking my lips as I walked up to the table and noticed it was empty. So I sit down, buy chips, and place my bet. The dealer throws me the cards face down which catches me completely off guard. I had only practiced 6D shoes on CV and didn't play a pitch game on my previous (and also first) trip to Vegas. Well right away the count goes up and I catch hand after hand. I'm fumbling all my chips while trying to stack them and keep playing. I keep asking the dealer the proper way to split and double because I only half knew what I was doing.

I ended up making about 40 units in around 10-15 minutes including winning 3 of 6 LL bets. Even through all that and having other players join the table, I never had trouble keeping the count.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#10
#10
arizBuckeye said:
Thanks for the replies. One last question... :)

I have only been practicing at home dealing myself from a 6 deck shoe. At first the thought of 1D or DD games kind of worried me. But after thinking about it, is it "easier" to count a 1D or DD game in that the game isn't as fast as a shoe game? Do you think this is an acurate statement or way off base? Or, is there anything I should be aware of in regards to pitch games vs. shoes games.

Thanks again...
Click to expand...
If you need to play 6D, the 6D at the Pioneer is the only playable shoe game in town, but I agree with ZG's assessment that this is a place you want to be playing DD.
 
A

arizBuckeye

Member
#12
#12
Should I sign up for the "players cards" with the casinos? I'm thinking yes, because I will be making numerous trips and may get some comps. But on the other hand, is it not a good idea because they have my name and info. And does this help them "mark" me if I blow my cover when counting?

I know these are all rookie questions...I really appreciate the advise.
 
T

TENNBEAR

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
arizBuckeye said:
Should I sign up for the "players cards" with the casinos? I'm thinking yes, because I will be making numerous trips and may get some comps. But on the other hand, is it not a good idea because they have my name and info. And does this help them "mark" me if I blow my cover when counting?

Yes Sign-up for your players card, take all the comps you can get. If you ever get a lot of Heat, then borrow a players card from someone you know,( Like your father-inlaw ) for your next trip. Some of us have several players cards at the same Casino, they do not check your ID when you buy-in.

As far as finding good playing conditions on a weekend, try starting at 4:00AM
When the crowds are gone.
Click to expand...
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
zengrifter said:
FIRST RULE -
Do not go to a casino venue to count cards on a busy weekend.
Click to expand...
You know, when I was in a St Louis casino over the weekend, seeing if I could count (and no, I'm not there yet), it didn't really seem that more difficult it being a fairly crowded friday. Finding a low-min table was tough, and there were way more CSMs in play, but it also seems that over the weekend they brought in a lot of their B-team dealers, so there were more slow dealers than I remember on weeknights.

Even the women dancing around in their underwear didn't really distract me. So either I'm good, or I shouldn't carry my cell phone in my pants pocket any more.

Of course, I do realize there are all kinds of good reasons why it's better when it's not crowded, but since my EV was dubious anyway, going on the weekend was pretty fun.
 
N

nc-tom

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
arizBuckeye said:
Thanks for the replies. One last question... :)

I have only been practicing at home dealing myself from a 6 deck shoe. At first the thought of 1D or DD games kind of worried me. But after thinking about it, is it "easier" to count a 1D or DD game in that the game isn't as fast as a shoe game? Do you think this is an acurate statement or way off base? Or, is there anything I should be aware of in regards to pitch games vs. shoes games.

Thanks again...
Click to expand...
AB good luck on your first outing. I would say you might be surprised at how fast 1d and 2d games can be delt. The fastest dealers I have ever played against delt 1 and 2 deck games. As stated one nice thing is if you lose count you dont have to waite long for the next deck.Once you get used to the rythem of the pitch games compared to the shoe games you should be ok
 
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