AP Questions

R

Rspeirsmlb

Well-Known Member
I know that straight counting, if done correctly yields you about 1-2% edge.....but, what are all the other AP methods used? I've noticed alotta people saying straight counting is lame cause of the only 1% edge, but what other AP techniques are you guys using that is better? I know there is shuffle tracking, ace location...but anything else? Also, what are some sites or books that will teach these methods and how big of an advantage can one have using all these combined? Oh yeah, just read Bringing Down the House.....excellent book.
 
xtensive use of matchplays,promos and comp counting can give you a much better edge than card counting.
Please keep in mind that most people who complain that a 1% edge is lame don't have the proper bankroll to make counting worthwhile.
A $10 bettor will cycle about $3000 in five hours,1% is $30.
A $100 bettor will cycle $30,000 in five hours,1% is $300. In additrion,if done right,you'll get several hundred dollars in comps as well. I don't know about others but $60 an hour with a free dinner for two in a nice steakhouse isn't very lame.
 
Rspeirsmlb said:
I know that straight counting, if done correctly yields you about 1-2% edge.....but, what are all the other AP methods used? I've noticed alotta people saying straight counting is lame cause of the only 1% edge, but what other AP techniques are you guys using that is better? I know there is shuffle tracking, ace location...but anything else? Also, what are some sites or books that will teach these methods and how big of an advantage can one have using all these combined? Oh yeah, just read Bringing Down the House.....excellent book.
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Are you just asking about blackjack? How serious are you about getting an edge? If you are just asking about how to beat blackjack well then card counting, shuffle tracking, hole carding, pretty much sums up everything you can do. But if what you are really asking is how do I make some money without working at a job, then you must expand your mind, open your eyes, think outside of the box and most importantly leave blackjack in the dust. Personally, i'd have to recommend confidence tricks for the most serious practitioners. You know, be a con man. You would not believe the kinds of advantages you can get. This is like beyond Bojack territory here. Really though the possibilities are endless. The only limitation is your imagination. But don't do anything illegal unless the risk is worth the reward. Because usually it isn't. But sometimes it is ie internet gambling up until now.
 
Are you just asking about blackjack? How serious are you about getting an edge? If you are just asking about how to beat blackjack well then card counting, shuffle tracking, hole carding, pretty much sums up everything you can do. But if what you are really asking is how do I make some money without working at a job, then you must expand your mind, open your eyes, think outside of the box and most importantly leave blackjack in the dust. Personally, i'd have to recommend confidence tricks for the most serious practitioners. You know, be a con man. You would not believe the kinds of advantages you can get. This is like beyond Bojack territory here. Really though the possibilities are endless. The only limitation is your imagination. But don't do anything illegal unless the risk is worth the reward. Because usually it isn't. But sometimes it is ie internet gambling up until now.

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Yeah I was focusing on blackjack....But I have a large enough bankroll (roughly $20,000-$80,000 depending on how serious I wanna be and how low of risks and how big of an advantage I can get) to make decent money, but am taking time (atleast 6 months and couple hours practice each day) to get counting and other techniques down to the point where I have a significant advantage. I can only work with a few Indian Casinos here in MI and am trying to get the most out of them till I'm 21. Also, could someone describe to me how comps work and what it takes to get stuff? I don't have a clue how it works...I know its like a player's card n it depends on what yer playing n yer bets made. Thanks
 
supercoolmancool said:
Are you just asking about blackjack? How serious are you about getting an edge? If you are just asking about how to beat blackjack well then card counting, shuffle tracking, hole carding, pretty much sums up everything you can do. But if what you are really asking is how do I make some money without working at a job, then you must expand your mind, open your eyes, think outside of the box and most importantly leave blackjack in the dust. Personally, i'd have to recommend confidence tricks for the most serious practitioners. You know, be a con man. You would not believe the kinds of advantages you can get. This is like beyond Bojack territory here. Really though the possibilities are endless. The only limitation is your imagination. But don't do anything illegal unless the risk is worth the reward. Because usually it isn't. But sometimes it is ie internet gambling up until now.
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Hey Cipher Jr. how about keeping advice on illegal practices to yourself. Con games is not a great way to get an advantage. No matter how you try to rationalize it conning someone is illegal as well as fixing kids carny games and whatever other bullcrap you're up to. Eventually its all negative EV, either when you go to jail, pay for lawyers, or just get your legs broke by somebody that doesn't buy into the fact that they've been duped. You are young and lazy and apparently not as bright as I originally gave you credit for. You better get a taste of the real world before you start giving advice how to take advantage of it.

Rspeirsmlb, there are many things out there to do if your goal is to get paid. Blackjack is not an easy way to make money if you are lazy and are easily discouraged. You do however seem to be approaching it the right way. Practice well, learn as much as you can, ease into some real casino play, and when you feel comfortable maybe think about using the bigger bankroll. The key to making good and what could become gauranteed money, and yes I said gauranteed money, is getting good enough to be respected by your peers, and networking as you gain experience. Once you do that doors can open up for you that normally don't come around to a recreational player. I won't lie though, after playing blackjack for a while you probably won't want to do it full time, most dont. But If you are good at it it can become a fun hobby and a source of income. I will say this, with the amount of money you have available for your bankroll right off the bat you do have quite an edge over most that are just starting out. By playing smart and betting not only proportional to your advantage but in the beginning also to your experience, you should never have to replenish your bankroll out of pocket. Also with a bigger bankroll when you become of age to play anywhere you will be able to travel to all the best games and not be forced to play only whats right in front of you. The best advice I can give you is, don't take advice from kids that their ambition in life is to skate through it. It won't end well, trust me.
 
wisdom... that which tends toward life

Bojack1 said:
Hey Cipher Jr. how about keeping advice on illegal practices to yourself. Con games is not a great way to get an advantage. No matter how you try to rationalize it conning someone is illegal as well as fixing kids carny games and whatever other bullcrap you're up to. Eventually its all negative EV, either when you go to jail, pay for lawyers, or just get your legs broke by somebody that doesn't buy into the fact that they've been duped. You are young and lazy and apparently not as bright as I originally gave you credit for. You better get a taste of the real world before you start giving advice how to take advantage of it.
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heh, heh. being old school i get your drift here Bojack. probably Supercool did also, but one does have to wonder if he is resorting to conning children :eek:
there is however some merit in the view that it's a dog eat dog world. problem being is big fish eat little fish. :rolleyes: thats what Supercool needs to keep in mind.
the thing is humanbeings well they eat just about anything (sometimes even each other). the point being an intelligent sentient and wise entity for the most part comes out on top of about any game. the wisdom factor is needed to reach the longterm and i believe it can help smooth out the ups and downs of variance and the tendency to over extend ones self in the face of variance. the other thing about wisdom is that it'll help one choose which games to play.
it's a difficult thing to engineer an easy approach that truly tends towards life.
 
I came home last nite and after reading scmcs rant,responded in a rather scathing post.However,after giving it some thought I retracted it.Now I'm sorry I did.
For anyone to compare Bojack's methods to a con man is about a stupid a post as I've read here.Stupider than claiming to be able to detect non-existant tells,or detecting patterns in computer programs.
Given the time of day that the post in question was written,perhaps it was just the drunken ravings of someone claiming something that wasn't true.If not,I suggest he reexamine what it is he wants out of life.
 
As far as comps go;
You sign up for a card,then present it to the dealer when you sit down and buy-in.
The pitboss will write up a slip of paper noting the time,your buy-in and the average of your first 3or 4 bets. Periodically he will come by and note your current bet on the slip.
After you finish,he'll enter this information,along with your estimated winnings or losses into the computer.
Thats how you earn comps.
Getting your comps is another story.It differs from casino to casino.In some places,comps earned from table games expire in a day or so,other store them just like slot points.
After you have been playing a few hours,you'll have enough comps to get a free meal.Depending on the size of your bet,it might be a buffet or perhaps a steak dinner(if you are betting $50 or so) You ask the pitboss and after checking the computer and making a fuss,he'll almost always give you a comp. If he says you haven't earned it,ask him straight out how much more you need to play to get it.
After you leave,your play is noted on the computer and depending on the casino,you may recieve offers from the marketing department to get you back.These will range from match play coupons to free rooms to invitations to private tourneys.
Many casinos give something when you first join their players club,be sure to
take advantage of whatever they offer,and many give presents on your birthdays and anniversarys.
The system is ripe for exploitation,but thats a whole other subject. Read Max Rubins "Comp City",the bible of comp counters,such as myself.
 
Since it's obvious you couldn't tell Bojack, the carnival thing was a joke. Doing AP to win carnival prizes would be a waste of time. Me and supercoolmancool could get a hold of some notepads and stencils and other things they give out at carnivals for a lot cheaper by just buying them. Our time is worth more than that.

supercoolmancool said:
Yah i'd have to agree with you guys. Taking advantage of others is wrong an should never be done. Sorry.
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Any time you have the advantage, someone else is at a disadvantage. Whether you are taking it from some innocent little kid, or a casino, you're taking money from someone. Those casino executives are just trying to feed their families you know. When do you cross the line? Is there one? If so, it's not crystal clear.
 
In honesty i didn't think that it sounded that much like a joke and combine it with what else was being said, i wasn't going to give credibility to any of it.
As far as advantage and screwing people, you're right i've got the advantage so the casino has the disavantage. The difference between that and screwing a little old lady or a kid is that they were trying to screw me in the first place. No sympathy for the rip off artist.

RJT.
 
When do you cross the line? Is there one? If so, it's not crystal clear.[/QUOTE]

That you even have to ask that question is evidence that you have an awful lot of growing up still to go.
 
shadroch said:
That you even have to ask that question is evidence that you have an awful lot of growing up still to go.
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Remember when you said, "It's better than getting a job". That still applies. Whatever pays the bills.

Shadroch and others, if you had been paying attention to my previous posts on this forum, I have always said that I do not screw over any individual people, but I am more than willing to screw over corporations such as casinos.

Remember that marked card thread where I said it was wrong to use them on friends? Yeah, I know MANY ways to cheat, I have learned them all. Not to use them but to defend against them. If I really wanted to I could make it my job to cheat my friends. Yeah, it would really be that easy. But I dont.

Besides, you're not really a good person to judge my morals, you dont know shit about me. Plus, I dont give a crap what YOU think of me. So keep trying to attack my character or AP skills, it doesn't change anything! You're still wrong, and I'm still making money...
 
Really though I think my post sounded worse than I meant it too. What I meant was that if you focus on advantage plays at just las vegas and other casinos where there is a lot of sharps and APs everywhere you are only going to be dealing with small advantages for instance let's say you are a pro sports better and want to bet on the super bowl. Well if you do what everyone else does and go to a sportsbook then you are going to have a very small edge at best, but if you open your mind and use a little creativity and expand your horizens, then the really smart person would realize that they can find much larger edges elsewhere. Namely taking advantage of someones confidence in the Bears. I haven't, but I know someone who has an entire max bet riding on the Colts to win outright made up of about 5 little bets with just people they know. That's kinda what I mean about confidence tricks.
 
There is no need for anyone to attack your character,you are doing a fine job of that yourself.
I have never attacked your so-called AP,whatever the heck that is. I have asked what experiance ,besides getting kicked out of your first casino,you have playing BJ that you can lecture people on the tough life of a BJ pro,or that counting doesn't work.
Your buddy brags of not having a job,and then wonders if the IRS will come down on him for the $5000 he made this year without paying taxes.There are many members here that make that in a week,sometimes in a day.

When hungry,I eat. When thirsty,I drink. Fools laugh,the wise understand.
Comprende?
 
shadroch said:
There is no need for anyone to attack your character,you are doing a fine job of that yourself.
I have never attacked your so-called AP,whatever the heck that is. I have asked what experiance ,besides getting kicked out of your first casino,you have playing BJ that you can lecture people on the tough life of a BJ pro,or that counting doesn't work.
Your buddy brags of not having a job,and then wonders if the IRS will come down on him for the $5000 he made this year without paying taxes.There are many members here that make that in a week,sometimes in a day.

When hungry,I eat. When thirsty,I drink. Fools laugh,the wise understand.
Comprende?
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When did I say counting doesn't work? I don't have a ton of experience, because I don't grind out small advantages, ala counting. Instead of constantly playing games with small advantages, I less freqently find oppurtunities with BIG advantages and pounce on them. Large advantage situations are not as prolific as small advantage games such as counting, but waiting for them is even better than just counting. I play less often only playing big advantages, but when I find them it more than makes up for the time I was on "vacation", and could have been counting.

Like I said, being in the middle of nowhere, oppurtunties that you would never find in Vegas appear more often than you think. And since there are approximately 2 AP's in this area of nowhere, we are free to take full advantage of these oppurtunities, since everyone else just passes them by not knowing what is there.

Anything else you'd like to know about me?
 
This is getting tiresome. You know Scott and Supercool I guess I just gave you more credit than you were worth. You are so short sighted that you can't tell the difference between what is legitimate advantage play and what is trying to make a buck without working. It seems you guys just want the easy way out with everything. You whine about counting not being enough of an advantage to really do anything with. Bullshit! As I will be the first to tell you that I don't limit myself to just counting, but than again I work hard at everything I do, we probably made more money straight counting last night than you have ever saw in your life. The fact is it would have been impossible for me to make that kind of money at your age, but than again it would be impossible to make that kind of money at my age if I had your attitude when I was younger. You haven't even scratched the surface on AP blackjack so do those a favor that ask AP questions and stay mute if your answers are anything like the ones you posted in this thread. The fact that you say you could cheat your friends but don't is such a stupid statement its laughable. What does that make you a hero? Its like saying yeah, and I don't beat my wife and kids. Thats the way its supposed to be, its not any great attribute to do whats normal. Its not a bad thing its just not anything to brag about. And to say that Vegas is so flooded with APs so that the advantages aren't that big, just shows your ignorance and inexperience. Its like saying even if you have a great restaurant don't open it in New York City because its flooded with them already. Thats smalltime thinking from smalltime minds. You guys aren't even big fish in a small pond, its more like small fish in a fish bowl. I suggest you don't give advice on things you don't have a clue about. Take a few trips to Vegas if you can steal enough kids milk money to get there, and then maybe start forming an educated opinion. And while your at it take a trip to NYC and check out the restaurants, maybe that will help you understand the analogy a little better. Now if you'll exuse me I need to rest before I go back out there tonight and play those worthless tiny advantages you guys know so much about.
 
ScottH said:
because I don't grind out small advantages, ala counting. Instead of constantly playing games with small advantages, I less freqently find oppurtunities with BIG advantages and pounce on them. Large advantage situations are not as prolific as small advantage games such as counting, but waiting for them is even better than just counting. I play less often only playing big advantages
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i think this is a poor train of thought. Example: let's say you have 1 opportunity every 3 months to make 50% on your investment. at the end of the year you would have had 4 times to make 50% thus giving you a total of 200% money made. NOW lets say you have 10 opportunities to make 10% every 3 months. at the end of the year you would have had 40 times to make 10% or a total of 400%. so by your train of thought you would have made 2X your money in a year, but using the other train you would have make 4X your money in a year. Using your train of thought you have to a VERY LARGE advantage to make a difference. Just something for you to think about.
 
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