Bad Habbits?
- Thread starter Tobyamu
- Start date
Well, according to many sources you have to learn to count in pairs to become a succesful counter. Pairs like K-5 10-6 etc (using the Hi-Lo) cancel each other out and saves alot of time. So its essential to learn that, I wouldn't call that a bad habit.
But it confuses me to. When people say they can count a deck in like 22 sec, do they count every card or do they cancel cards out, like for example pairs?
But it confuses me to. When people say they can count a deck in like 22 sec, do they count every card or do they cancel cards out, like for example pairs?
Most people cancel the cards in groups of 2 or three. Here are some old threads about different people's counting techniques:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6349
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3319
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9731
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=8689
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=5201
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3901
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2385
-Sonny-
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6349
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3319
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9731
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=8689
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=5201
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3901
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2385
-Sonny-
alot of it is canceling the cards out it just means you could stop at any point in the deck and know what the count is. but the reason for the speed is to be able to process the 1s and -1s in your running count fast so even when you are canceling it you still are keeping the main objective. its all just so you can keep the count at the casino with other stuff going on and it helps to do it quickly
counting down a deck a canceal as many as i can so if i see 8 cards that will cancel out i cancel them out at the casino just pairs becuase thats what they are delt in. if i happen to see 3 hands that cancel out, cancel them out.
the whole objective is to maintain and obtain a count easily and quickly
the whole objective is to maintain and obtain a count easily and quickly
Keep practicing...
I've cut my time for single card countdown from 90 seconds to 40-45 secs.
Using CVBJ drills I'm slower, only because one must move the cursor back
and forth among a number matrix to indicate the running count.
Try not to sacrifice accuracy for speed. The speed gets faster all by itself
as you continue to practice. If you watch the Ken Uston episode of
Breaking Vegas, they depict his 'final exam' for counting down a deck card
by card. It looks fast, and is fast, because counting down a deck in 26
seconds is two cards per second. When I started I couldn't even turn over
one card per second. Now I'm approaching 30 seconds and feel much
more confident.
I haven't tried canceling pairs, since I'm learning a 2 level count, and the
pairs are fewer and less frequent. But eventually I'll tackle them, too.
One thing that has happened is that practicing counting has been to the
detriment of BS drills. I have to figure out how to find time to practice
both skills, in the time set aside for practice. I practice mainly at work
in the minutes between tasks, maybe 15 minutes total each work day.
Maybe it's just a matter of being more serious about BJ, and putting more
time in when I'm not working. That's when I rely on CVBJ drills. Perhaps
I'll continue to count decks at work, then practice BS/I18 using CVBJ
on my days off. Yeah... That's the ticket!
I don't think you can get too much practice, until this all becomes second
nature. (just like your times tables in school)
BJinNJ
I've cut my time for single card countdown from 90 seconds to 40-45 secs.
Using CVBJ drills I'm slower, only because one must move the cursor back
and forth among a number matrix to indicate the running count.
Try not to sacrifice accuracy for speed. The speed gets faster all by itself
as you continue to practice. If you watch the Ken Uston episode of
Breaking Vegas, they depict his 'final exam' for counting down a deck card
by card. It looks fast, and is fast, because counting down a deck in 26
seconds is two cards per second. When I started I couldn't even turn over
one card per second. Now I'm approaching 30 seconds and feel much
more confident.
I haven't tried canceling pairs, since I'm learning a 2 level count, and the
pairs are fewer and less frequent. But eventually I'll tackle them, too.
One thing that has happened is that practicing counting has been to the
detriment of BS drills. I have to figure out how to find time to practice
both skills, in the time set aside for practice. I practice mainly at work
in the minutes between tasks, maybe 15 minutes total each work day.
Maybe it's just a matter of being more serious about BJ, and putting more
time in when I'm not working. That's when I rely on CVBJ drills. Perhaps
I'll continue to count decks at work, then practice BS/I18 using CVBJ
on my days off. Yeah... That's the ticket!
I don't think you can get too much practice, until this all becomes second
nature. (just like your times tables in school)
BJinNJ
I started counting single cards and then changed to pairs.
It was taking over a minute for single countdown, I then shaved about twenty seconds off just by switching to pairs. I'll continue with pairs as I'm practing hi-lo.
I'm sure once you have either nailed down it should be relatively easy to switch your countdown technique.
It was taking over a minute for single countdown, I then shaved about twenty seconds off just by switching to pairs. I'll continue with pairs as I'm practing hi-lo.
I'm sure once you have either nailed down it should be relatively easy to switch your countdown technique.
If you're having some trouble with speed a good pair to memorize is blackjack (-2 using most level 1 counts) because not having to think about that plus the extra time gained from the dealer pay out usually gives you a break to slow down. Atleast, thats what I always felt like when I first started counting.
the idea is to do deck countdowns practicing both pairing and 1 at a time. when a dealer hits someone several times pair counting won't help you. i use the pairing for when the 2nd cards are dealt to each player. after that on each hit i count it as it comes.
25 seconds or less is good i'd say. i avg about 18 seconds but you can probably count cards successfully at 25 seconds. once you hit that benchmark you shld start dealing to yourself and then progress to get someone to deal for you.
edit: and to answer the op's question. waiting to count the uncanceled cards is not a bad habit. as long as you get the right count every time nothing else matters IMO. theres many different strategies that ppl use (pictures to represent the count. mentally yelling etc.). the bottom line is keeping the count and if you can do that thats what matters.
25 seconds or less is good i'd say. i avg about 18 seconds but you can probably count cards successfully at 25 seconds. once you hit that benchmark you shld start dealing to yourself and then progress to get someone to deal for you.
edit: and to answer the op's question. waiting to count the uncanceled cards is not a bad habit. as long as you get the right count every time nothing else matters IMO. theres many different strategies that ppl use (pictures to represent the count. mentally yelling etc.). the bottom line is keeping the count and if you can do that thats what matters.
For flexibility it's useful to bractice counting down decks by singles, pairs, trips, and even quads.
And BJinNJ makes a good point that first starting to learn counting tends to atrophy the part of the brain that knows basic strategy.
I'm still very slow at counting down a deck, but it isn't an issue in actual play. Not sure why. Probably multitasking.
And BJinNJ makes a good point that first starting to learn counting tends to atrophy the part of the brain that knows basic strategy.
I'm still very slow at counting down a deck, but it isn't an issue in actual play. Not sure why. Probably multitasking.
Shut Up Mind!
no verbalization of any number in your mind at all? well i'm curious about that. you aren't i know for a fact your not talking about fuzzy counting. lol.
Yes, if you choose at the end of the scan you can say a number to yourself or you can have a visual image. Perhaps an image on an imaginary chalk board, which you can manipulate faster and easier then counting in your mind.:whip:
When you can count when talking, when it is second nature you are not quite counting up and down on a number line.:joker:
sagefr0g said:
no verbalization of any number in your mind at all? well i'm curious about that. you aren't i know for a fact your not talking about fuzzy counting. lol.
When you can count when talking, when it is second nature you are not quite counting up and down on a number line.:joker: