Card Counting Etiquette

[WestCoast21]

I was wondering if anyone here feels there is a certain etiquette in the card counting world when you find yourself at a table with another card counter?

1. Does the first card counter to sit at the table sort of have claim to the table? Is the second card counter expected to immediately leave the table?

2. Is it rude to back out of negative counts and leave it all to the other counter? Is it rude to spread to two hands on positive counts and/or drop to one hand on negative counts, therefore hurting the other counter's game?

3. Are you expected to keep your betting spread minimal if there is another counter at the table first and he's spreading aggressively?

I ask because I come across a lot of counters these days and I'm not exactly sure what is expected of me. Usually I just find a different table, but sometimes the selection is limited. Any thoughts?

 

[creeping panther]

W.Coast

I was wondering if anyone here feels there is a certain etiquette in the card counting world when you find yourself at a table with another card counter?

1. Does the first card counter to sit at the table sort of have claim to the table? Is the second card counter expected to immediately leave the table?

2. Is it rude to back out of negative counts and leave it all to the other counter? Is it rude to spread to two hands on positive counts and/or drop to one hand on negative counts, therefore hurting the other counter's game?

3. Are you expected to keep your betting spread minimal if there is another counter at the table first and he's spreading aggressively?

I ask because I come across a lot of counters these days and I'm not exactly sure what is expected of me. Usually I just find a different table, but sometimes the selection is limited. Any thoughts?

Bro',

Play as you like, until you form a relationship that other AP is just another player.

CP

 

[daddybo]

Bro',

Play as you like, until you form a relationship that other AP is just another player.

CP

Unless it's my table... But then I'll let you know.

 

[WestCoast21]

Pretty much what I figured. Thanks for your input.

I was thinking about it because I just recently sat at a table where there was another counter and it seemed he deferred to me. I thought maybe he was pissed off that I sat down, but he seemed to be nice about it and we had a good conversation about sports while we played. He was spreading his bets pretty aggressively until he realized I was doing the same. Then he backed down and let me have it for the most part.

It was high limit action and I made a good amount of money on the session. After I left I wondered if he was bitter for letting me go big on the good counts while he held back. In hindsight I thought maybe I was rude to take over his table like that. Hopefully he kicked ass after I left!

 

[kewljason]

I was wondering if anyone here feels there is a certain etiquette in the card counting world when you find yourself at a table with another card counter?

1. Does the first card counter to sit at the table sort of have claim to the table? Is the second card counter expected to immediately leave the table?

2. Is it rude to back out of negative counts and leave it all to the other counter? Is it rude to spread to two hands on positive counts and/or drop to one hand on negative counts, therefore hurting the other counter's game?

3. Are you expected to keep your betting spread minimal if there is another counter at the table first and he's spreading aggressively?

I ask because I come across a lot of counters these days and I'm not exactly sure what is expected of me. Usually I just find a different table, but sometimes the selection is limited. Any thoughts?

It should be common courtesy that the second player, upon realizing that another AP was at the table first should move on. To not do so, and have the two of you remain and raise bets in tandem for any length of time, only jeopardizes both parties. Of course common courtesy is becoming a lost art these days.

Often times you do not realize this until the count rises of course. When this happens I will finish the shoe (epecially a positive count shoe) and if I was the second player, will leave immediately. If I was the first player, I will give the other player a brief time during the shuffle to show some class and "do the right thing", If he chooses not to I will move on. As I said, No good can come from two player at the same table raising bets in tandem!

 

[creeping panther]

D-bo,

Unless it's my table... But then I'll let you know.

You are my "ITATANE", why would I not respect you?

CP

 

[creeping panther]

Kewl

It should be common courtesy that the second player, upon realizing that another AP was at the table first should move on. To not do so, and have the two of you remain and raise bets in tandem for any length of time, only jeopardizes both parties. Of course common courtesy is becoming a lost art these days.

Often times you do not realize this until the count rises of course. When this happens I will finish the shoe (epecially a positive count shoe) and if I was the second player, will leave immediately. If I was the first player, I will give the other player a brief time during the shuffle to show some class and "do the right thing", If he chooses not to I will move on. As I said, No good can come from two player at the same table raising bets in tandem!

There is a good way to deal with this, you need not give up anything.

But of course if it makes you feel uncomfortable than you can leave...but it has nothing to do with common courtesy.

CP

 

[kewljason]

There is a good way to deal with this, you need not give up anything.

But of course if it makes you feel uncomfortable than you can leave...but it has nothing to do with common courtesy.

CP

ok, I'll bite.

 

[creeping panther]

Kewl

ok, I'll bite.

I will be happy to tell you, to show you, ...................in June 2010:grin:

CP

 

[kewljason]

I will be happy to tell you, to show you, ...................in June 2010:grin:

CP

tease!!

I will try to keep my schedule clear. It will be my first summer as a parttime vegas resident, so I am sure that as june, july, august draws near, and it heats up, I will be looking for EVERY opportunity to get away for a few days. lol

 

[shadroch]

There are few places in the Us worse than Vegas in June, but Mississippi is one of them.

 

[FLASH1296]

Kewl Jason is correct.

The common courtesy is to leave if you are the second card Counter to arrive
at that table, even if you are betting several times what the other player is.

This is really not debatable.

 

[21forme]

Kewl Jason is correct.

The common courtesy is to leave if you are the second card Counter to arrive
at that table, even if you are betting several times what the other player is.

This is really not debatable.

It's also common courtesy not to ask questions of the other counter's index plays, especially in a loud voice, while playing side by side at Trump Plaza :laugh:

 

[psyduck]

If there is already an AP at every table you like to play, you just fly home?

 

[rukus]

It's also common courtesy not to ask questions of the other counter's index plays, especially in a loud voice, while playing side by side at Trump Plaza :laugh:

not sure if this is truly a joke, but i actually have run into just a few counters in my time at the tables. i found the 2 whom i met in AC lacked any etiquette or manners whatsoever, including not following the examples posted above. particularly the wongers. despite me asking him to wait, one wonged right into a dealer Ace upcard, where we both took insurance and won. a loud, snide "wow, did you just insure a 14? you must be counting!" comment got him up from the table real fast... he didnt approach my table the rest of the time i was in the joint.

the west coast brethren on the other hand seem to be a lot more relaxed and agreeable. i have never had any troubles in vegas when another counter bumped into my table.

 

[21forme]

My comment was meant for Flash. He'll understand.

 

[kewljason]

If there is already an AP at every table you like to play, you just fly home?

Not sure what of what location you speak? If you are speaking of traveling to a location that is so romote, that it has limited opportunities to play, and you are encountering a high number of counters, I guess you would have make that decision on the fly.

I was speaking of common venues like Vegas or AC, where there are ample opportunities. It is rare that I encounter other AP's, but on those occassions that I do, it is not worth jeopardizing one of the better stores in my regular rolation, even for a short time, while the heat wears off. To do so costs me money.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Just my opinions here. There is no hard rule.

I was wondering if anyone here feels there is a certain etiquette in the card counting world when you find yourself at a table with another card counter?

1. Does the first card counter to sit at the table sort of have claim to the table? Is the second card counter expected to immediately leave the table?

The first counter to ever sit at that table may be dead. When I realize there is another counter in the house I generally keep away from him unless he has indicated a desire to hang out with me, but if you have been sitting there playing a shoe and you suddenly realize another player is raising his bets when you are, it would violate a cardinal rule to walk away from the good count. You were eating those -EV hands just like he was. But you might want to consider leaving at the end of the shoe if possible.

2. Is it rude to back out of negative counts and leave it all to the other counter? Is it rude to spread to two hands on positive counts and/or drop to one hand on negative counts, therefore hurting the other counter's game?

See above- assuming this is a Wongable game you are under no obligation to sit through a negative count just because there is another counter there. If he wasn't getting up and leaving himself, you are setting a good example by doing so yourself. Generally I won't spread to 2 hands unless he is playing that kind of a game too.

3. Are you expected to keep your betting spread minimal if there is another counter at the table first and he's spreading aggressively?

No, play your own game plan. Not all counters know what they are doing and you shouldn't let what someone you just met in a casino is doing influence you.

I ask because I come across a lot of counters these days and I'm not exactly sure what is expected of me. Usually I just find a different table, but sometimes the selection is limited. Any thoughts?

If you're playing in small stores or playing SD where crowding kills you, this is a problem. One very practical reason to avoid playing at a table with another counter is that there aren't that many skilled surveillance people capable of detecting a counter, and if there is one up there he probably can't count two tables at once. Making sure the other counter is aware of your presence is a good idea, and you should be as courteous to him as he is to you.

 

[creeping panther]

Flash

Kewl Jason is correct.

The common courtesy is to leave if you are the second card Counter to arrive
at that table, even if you are betting several times what the other player is.

This is really not debatable.

Unless you are an associate of the other AP, it is each man for themselves.

There is no Brotherhood of AP's, the only courtesy you show is that of general manners to any other player.

I am sorry if this comes as a rude shock to some of you.:laugh:

CP

 

[kewljason]

Unless you are an associate of the other AP, it is each man for themselves.

There is no Brotherhood of AP's, the only courtesy you show is that of general manners to any other player.

I am sorry if this comes as a rude shock to some of you.:laugh:

CP

The original poster wasn't speaking of an associate, CP, he was asking what to do when he sits at a table that already has a counter. For myself it isn't a matter of a Brotherhood or even courtesy for that matter. It's a matter of playing longevity. Sitting at a table with another counter raising bets in tandem is NOT a favorable situation for me and I would extract myself from that situation as quickly as possible similar to if I was in a situation where I was attracting heat. I want to keep playing these favorable stores over and over. If I have to remove a favorable location from my rotation for even a short time, it has in effect cost me money. Bottom line. It just isn't a pissing contest that I need to win.