Dice Control: Is It Cheating?

[zengrifter]

DICE CONTROL: IS IT CHEATING?
Moredeals.com

This subject comes up from time to time in magazines, books, and especially on the Internet in discussions about casino gaming. Is it cheating to be able to set the dice in certain combinations and to throw the dice in a manner which limits the appearance of certain numbers or produces a better chance that certain numbers will show?

...continued here - (Dead link: http://www.moredeals.com/tips.php?selection=tip1)

 

[bj bob]

Re: Controlling dice

Dear Zg, Having watched "Breaking Vegas" and several other shows on the subject as well as buying Scolbete's book I don't see any difference between setting and controlling dice and counting cards. It's simply skill...Is a highly competent BS blackjack player more successful than a "play my hunch" floppy? Of course ! Is a "tight" craps player(one who plays only pass/don't w/ full odds)more likely to win than the Hard Way,Hi-Lo,and C/Ebettor?You bet.The only difference between counting cards or perfect BS and dice control is that one is mental and the other is physical. Talent is talent. So let's use what we have achieved and let the good times(and dice) roll! BJ

 

[zengrifter]

Harolds Club RENO OR BUST

Harolds Club is long gone! zg

 

[bj bob]

Gone?

Oh REALLY? That's what they said about Hendrix and Joplin, but I just saw them both live in concert after ingesting some of Mikeaber's E-stash. There's gone and then there's GONE

 

[nc-tom]

Dice Control

In spite of what some of the folks said in the artical that ZG posted I agree with BJ Bob that dice control is a skill not cheating. There is a book by Sharpshooter out that explains the mechanics behind the skill as well as what you need to do to learn and develope this skill. Only problem is its dam hard. I have found it much easier to learn to count cards that to learn dice control or develope a SRR better than the mean of 6 to 1.It is like trying to learn a golf swing. You can read and take lessons all you want but you will probably not have a swing like a PGA pro no matter how much you pratice.In the 5 years since I first read about this I can honestly say I have played with no more than 5 people who I felt were dice controllers. Sure is nice when you find one though. To anyone who can learn this skill well more power to ya.

 

[zengrifter]

What if there is a sign posted at the table that says "NO DICE CONTROL ALLOWED"? zg

 

[rdorange]

Posted sign...

Does the "what if" sign say no dice control, or no dice setting?

 

[moo321]

The problem with dice control is that the standard for cheating in Nevada is whether you alter the odds of the game. Card counting involves betting when you have an advantage, not changing the odds of the game. I don't know about dice control.

 

[RJT]

The problem with dice control is that the standard for cheating in Nevada is whether you alter the odds of the game. Card counting involves betting when you have an advantage, not changing the odds of the game. I don't know about dice control.

That's actually a very good point although i don't think it would stand up in court.
Think of it this way - in blackjack a shuffle tracker who consistently cuts the high cards into play actually affects the odds of the game. Without realising it, everyone playing at the table will benifit from the excess of high cards they are playing through each round. Is shuffle tracking considered illegal? No. Shuffle tracking is not considered illegal because the casino allows customers to cut the deck. All the shuffle tracker has done is learn how to skillfully cut in positions that benifit him. As long as the casino allow you to do something, it can't be considered illegal to do it skillfully.
The same applies to dice control. The player is allowed by the casino to roll the dice. As long as they stay within the bounds of the pre-defined standards - i.e. hitting the back wall it would be my understanding that any court would rule that they can roll any way they like.


RJT.

 

[ChefJJ]

What if there is a sign posted at the table that says "NO DICE CONTROL ALLOWED"? zg

You would treat it like a sign at a BJ table that said "NO CARD COUNTING ALLOWED". Cover plays.

 

[rdorange]

Well put

Very good jj :1st:

 

[ChefJJ]

Unfortunatly, ZG won't see the reply because he has me blocked for some reason.

But it's the truth.

PS - the craps "manual" is well underway. I am going back to update some of the posts on the blog concerning the sets. Putting some better tables in and such. Basically, 3 good sets and 3 not-so-good.

good luck

 

[zengrifter]

Unfortunatly, ZG won't see the reply because he has me blocked for some reason.

But it's the truth.

PS - the craps "manual" is well underway. I am going back to update some of the posts on the blog concerning the sets. Putting some better tables in and such. Basically, 3 good sets and 3 not-so-good.

good luck

I don't have anyone blocked, silly gosling. zg

 

[bj bob]

I don't have anyone blocked, silly gosling. zg

Not even the FCC?

 

[ChefJJ]

I don't have anyone blocked, silly gosling. zg

Fantastic!

To answer your question honestly, cover plays should give an AP the ability to diffuse some heat. There are several different ways to set up the same dice set, so not having the same numbers on top each time does help.

 

[k_c]

Escorted out by security for setting dice

My father was a craps player. Many years ago I went with him to the Golden Gate Casino across from the Plaza in downtown Vegas to play craps. I had very little money and basically just watched but placed an occasional bet mainly on the hardways. When it was my turn to throw the dice, I decided I would try to throw hardways. My theory was to align each die the same and throw them in a way that made them each do the same thing. I really didn't think it was possible but I figured, "what's the harm in trying?" After a few rolls, pit boss warns me to just pick up the dice and throw them. I sped up, but still tried to align each die The next thing I know is 2 security guards grab me and escort me out the door. Obviously, they didn't want anyone to even try using any skill.

k_c

 

[moo321]

My father was a craps player. Many years ago I went with him to the Golden Gate Casino across from the Plaza in downtown Vegas to play craps. I had very little money and basically just watched but placed an occasional bet mainly on the hardways. When it was my turn to throw the dice, I decided I would try to throw hardways. My theory was to align each die the same and throw them in a way that made them each do the same thing. I really didn't think it was possible but I figured, "what's the harm in trying?" After a few rolls, pit boss warns me to just pick up the dice and throw them. I sped up, but still tried to align each die The next thing I know is 2 security guards grab me and escort me out the door. Obviously, they didn't want anyone to even try using any skill.

k_c

Were you hitting the back wall? Dice control is very possible if you're not hitting the wall (i.e. the army blanket roll), but if you are it becomes an area of debate.

 

[ChefJJ]

Were you hitting the back wall? Dice control is very possible if you're not hitting the wall (i.e. the army blanket roll), but if you are it becomes an area of debate.

Very true. If they do hit the wall, it's gotta be their last gasp...pretty much at the end of their line.

 

[k_c]

Were you hitting the back wall? Dice control is very possible if you're not hitting the wall (i.e. the army blanket roll), but if you are it becomes an area of debate.

I tried to hit the back wall with as little force as possible. Like I said, I didn't think I'd actually be successful due to any skill on my part. I actually hit a couple of hardways, but I attributed that to luck more than skill. I also won a couple of hardway bets when others rolled the dice and I know that was just plain luck.

k_c

 

[aslan]

If dice control is cheating, then what steps can I as a thrower take to ensure that I don't "cheat?" Should I close my eyes when I pick up the dice? Should I try to hit the backboard (pyramids) as hard as I can while still keeping the dice on the table? Should I refrain from thinking what the dice might come up, or making such statements as I throw them as "Come to poppa, baby!" or "Baby needs a new pair of shoes!", since mind control and prayer are not out of the question when it comes to dice control? Should I pass the dice for fear that I might exercise some control on the dice and thereby be guilty of cheating? Should I ask the stickman to throw them for me? Heck! Why don't we just play dice electronically so there is no chance that we have a chance? Yeah! That's the ticket! I think the house would agree that if we always lose we aren't cheating. At least, I don't think they will be barring us anytime soon.