doubling down on soft19 and20

[L.J.]

im using hi lo lite indices. i think it looks suspicious to double down on such high numbers when there's obviously no other reason then getting more money out at the table. it looks no better than drawing an ace to a 20 or splitting tens, (and even if you are going for the idiot image, it might draw attention if the idiot suddenly starts playing intelligently all of a sudden later in the game.)

do you use all the indices? is it important to use all indices? how about the pair split-indices? (the dealer rarely knows correct bs strategy for pair splits anyway right?) i suppose it is even more important if ur tracking shuffles to use all indices?

 

[Sonny]

is it important to use all indices?

If you can learn the main 20-25 indices (the illustrious 18, fab 4 and 8 vs. 5,6) you can gain most of the advantage of index play.

i suppose it is even more important if ur tracking shuffles to use all indices?

When you are shuffle tracking, calculating the TC can be a bit more vague. For that reason I don’t use many indices if I’m playing a tracked slug. I might use insurance and a few of the close calls (11 vs. A, 9 vs. 2, 16 vs. 10, etc.) but that’s about it. The fact that you are playing many more positive counts (and identifying exactly when they are coming out) is the biggest gain from tracking. Indices are just gravy.

-Sonny-

 

[Cardcounter]

Doubling soft 19

The most missed basic stragedy play in history has to be failing to double down soft 19 vs a 6 up card in a hit soft 17 game. Yes it is actually basic stragedy. Setting the rules for 1 deck double any two hit soft 17 I missed that play and I'm a pretty dam good player that has been backed off from playing a couple of times. I would say that hand is played wrong 99.99% of the time yes staying is the wrong play.

 

[Kasi]

The most missed basic stragedy play in history has to be failing to double down soft 19 vs a 6 up card in a hit soft 17 game. Yes it is actually basic stragedy. Setting the rules for 1 deck double any two hit soft 17 I missed that play and I'm a pretty dam good player that has been backed off from playing a couple of times. I would say that hand is played wrong 99.99% of the time yes staying is the wrong play.

Wouldn't it also be BS to double A,8 vs 6 in a 1D S17 DA2 game? I mean why pick on an H17 1D DA2 game? It's the same either way, isn't it?

Fine for 2 or more decks.

Fortunately you don't get the hand but once or less in a thousand hands so it costs you next to nothing anyway.

 

[Cardcounter]

The rules effect the play!

No if the dealer stays on soft 17 you don't double soft 19 vs a 6 but you do if he hits. The even though the dealer usually makes a better hand when he hits soft 17 he also busts more. Making doubling against a 6 more lucurative.
My gut tells me that it is a very close play, I think most people would think you are an idiot for doing it though. However most people lose at this game at a rate much higher than basic stragedy says that they should.

 

[bj bob]

Correction

No if the dealer stays on soft 17 you don't double soft 19 vs a 6 but you do if he hits. The even though the dealer usually makes a better hand when he hits soft 17 he also busts more. Making doubling against a 6 more lucurative.
My gut tells me that it is a very close play, I think most people would think you are an idiot for doing it though. However most people lose at this game at a rate much higher than basic stragedy says that they should.

The only pitch game where BS does not call for a double on A,8 v. 6 is the DD S-17 game. Both variations of SD and DD H-17 call for double down.

 

[jack.jackson]

Spin-off

What really scratches my head, is a pair 66s vs 7 is BS play(split) for EVEN, a 2D das,H17 game. But yet Ive never seen an Index for this play?

 

[bj bob]

What really scratches my head, is a pair 66s vs 7 is BS play(split) for EVEN, a 2D das,H17 game. But yet Ive never seen an Index for this play?

The DAS rule also stretches the 7,7 vs.8 to split those as well. I've never seen an index for those either, but I'm sure one of the wizards here on the board has the ticket.

 

[Kasi]

No if the dealer stays on soft 17 you don't double soft 19 vs a 6 but you do if he hits. .. My gut tells me that it is a very close play

No, in a singledeck S17 DAS game the correct play is to double A,8 vs 6.

If u don't believe bj bob or me, use Ken's BS engine.

But, you're right, it's a very close play and in reality it makes little difference what you do lol.

 

[Kasi]

The DAS rule also stretches the 7,7 vs.8 to split those as well. I've never seen an index for those either, but I'm sure one of the wizards here on the board has the ticket.

The best I can do is in a SD S17 game, split 6,6, vs 7 when TC is less than 0 if the game is no DAS. If it's SD H17 DAS split when TC is less than 11.

Likewise for a SD H17 game whether DAS or no DAS.

For 7,7 vs 8 split when TC is less than or equal -1 whether S17 or or H17 DAS. Don't do it in a no DAS game.

Not sure about DD games.

 

[jack.jackson]

The best I can do is in a SD S17 game, split 6,6, vs 7 when TC is less than 0 if the game is no DAS. If it's SD H17 DAS split when TC is less than 11.

Likewise for a SD H17 game whether DAS or no DAS.

For 7,7 vs 8 split when TC is less than or equal -1 whether S17 or or H17 DAS. Don't do it in a no DAS game.

Not sure about DD games.

Looks good Kasi

 

[Kasi]

Looks good Kasi

I wasn't sure if I should have said "less than or equal" to TC 0 and TC 11 in the above.

I'm thinking I probably should have lol.

In any case "less" is the important word compared to the usual "more".

I hope you're on the West Coast or you should be in bed lol.

 

[L.J.]

have any of you gotten any heat from doubling down on such high cards?

 

[zengrifter]

have any of you gotten any heat from doubling down on such high cards?

Not me. zg

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

The most missed basic stragedy play in history has to be failing to double down soft 19 vs a 6 up card in a hit soft 17 game. Yes it is actually basic stragedy. Setting the rules for 1 deck double any two hit soft 17 I missed that play and I'm a pretty dam good player that has been backed off from playing a couple of times. I would say that hand is played wrong 99.99% of the time yes staying is the wrong play.

the second most misplayed move that i also sometimes forget is double A7 vs 3-6

What really scratches my head, is a pair 66s vs 7 is BS play(split) for EVEN, a 2D das,H17 game. But yet Ive never seen an Index for this play?

see below

The DAS rule also stretches the 7,7 vs.8 to split those as well. I've never seen an index for those either, but I'm sure one of the wizards here on the board has the ticket.

these both sound like odd moves, altho correct, because using the dealer has a 10 underneath technique (not correct to always assume, but @ 31% its a pretty good chance), it would be 16 vs 17 and 17 vs 18.. for shoes its 66 2-6 and 77 2-7