More AC Heat and NJ Gaming Law Question

WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
So I was at Resorts last week and was down about a grand. I had been waiting all night for a good shoe to win my money back and finally got a true count of +8 and bet $500 to try and win something back. As soon as I place the purple chip in the betting circle the pit quickly yells "Shuffle that shoe!" To which the dealer obliges, then cuts the next shoe in half.

I was so mad because 1) I wasn't even up money 2) I had been waiting for like 4 hours to get a good shoe. I was gonna screw with these guys. So I got up and pretended to start back counting and when the count got real shitty on some ladies shoe I jumped in and bet $200, to which he quickly ordered the dealer to shuffle again. I laughed out loud and told him he just wasted a shuffle since the count wasn't even good. The shift manager then comes over to me and she tells me anytime I go above 3 units they are shuffling the shoe, I just ignore her.

But if I wanted to keep playing games with them, I needed to know if they would be accepting my action. So in the beginning of a shoe when the count wasn't good I put $200 in again and ask, "you gonna shuffle now?" He responds, "bet it and find out!"

Can the casino legally do this? If the shift manager verbally tells me they are shuffling anything above 3 units, but don't keep that promise can I go to casino control? I place a wager but I have no way to know if it will be accepted or not doesn't seem fair. I didn't know how to play this out or what to do so I just gave up and left. I was real angry though cause they got $1250 from me...
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
They don't have to tell you when they will shuffle and they are within their right to do so.

In my experience, Resorts is the sweatiest place in town (more so than Hilton) and either they are very good or just quick to shuffle anyone who spreads their bets. OTOH, I've never had any problem playing veinte uno there.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
You didn't specify what your unit was. I thing some of us are interested to know how big of a jump it was from your unit to the initial $500 bet?

I don't know how often you play at that location, but I don't think you did yourself any favors by the way you handled yourself. There is nothing to be gained by challenging them and giving them additional reasons to remember you. Best to just walk away at that point.
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
21forme said:
They don't have to tell you when they will shuffle and they are within their right to do so.

In my experience, Resorts is the sweatiest place in town (more so than Hilton) and either they are very good or just quick to shuffle anyone who spreads their bets. OTOH, I've never had any problem playing veinte uno there.
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Yes they are sweaty...
 
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WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
kewljason said:
You didn't specify what your unit was. I thing some of us are interested to know how big of a jump it was from your unit to the initial $500 bet?

I don't know how often you play at that location, but I don't think you did yourself any favors by the way you handled yourself. There is nothing to be gained by challenging them and giving them additional reasons to remember you. Best to just walk away at that point.
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I don't live on the east coast, and frankly don't care if it's impossible to play there. I just wanted to have fun with them at that point.

My min bet was $25...The interesting thing was they were allowing me to go up to $300 without any problem so I really didn't think $500 was gonna make a difference. I even played 2 hands of $200 at one point with the pit watching and not saying anything.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Play cat and mouse. Put out an unacceptable amount the second hand of each shoe. See how long they'll shuffle up under those circumstances.
Seriously-If you know they will shuffle anytime you bet a certain amount, that can be a huge advantage.
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
shadroch said:
Play cat and mouse. Put out an unacceptable amount the second hand of each shoe. See how long they'll shuffle up under those circumstances.
Seriously-If you know they will shuffle anytime you bet a certain amount, that can be a huge advantage.
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That was the problem which led to my subsequent question above...

They said one thing but I didn't know when they were going to shuffle or not. What if it was the second hand of the shoe, I put out $200 and they know the count cant be great (which it wont be) and they go ahead and deal the hand?
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
WABJ11 said:
I don't live on the east coast, and frankly don't care if it's impossible to play there. I just wanted to have fun with them at that point.

My min bet was $25...The interesting thing was they were allowing me to go up to $300 without any problem so I really didn't think $500 was gonna make a difference. I even played 2 hands of $200 at one point with the pit watching and not saying anything.
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In my experience, $500 definately makes a difference. Both in AC and Vegas. A max bet of $400 definately draws less attention than $500. $500 seems to be a threshold of a whole new level of scrutiny.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#12
#12
21forme said:
What casino lets you add to or pull your bet back once the first card comes out?
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If you can pull the bet back between the time the card is pulled from the shoe and exposed on the table, it's yours. Most dealers don't try any deception along those lines.

Another thing you can do is place an illegal bet, a "barber pole" or place a bet in the sidebet area without one on the main bet, and see how they react.
 
A

ArcticInferno

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
I read in two different books that it's never a good idea to draw attention and cause a scene. You don't want them to remember you. You also don't want them to talk about you in the pit or in the break room. You really have nothing to gain by being confrontational. Remember, the object of the game is to win money in the long run. Does it matter whether you lose money here and win money there? Money is money, and all the casinos are the same (for our purposes). The best advice is to check your emotions and ego at the door and play cold like a machine. You shouldn't take unnecessary risks or do foolish things just to finish off the day ahead. The cards don't know what day it is. As far as the money and the cards are concerned, it's just one long continues play. It starts from your first play, and ends on your last play.

You were there for 4 hours???!!! I once got backed off from Caesars in Las Vegas because I was playing for extremely long hours. I posted a message here and I got slammed. Now, I never stay longer than 2 hours max. I usually leave after about an hour of play.
I'm very surprised that you continued to play after being identified as a card counter.

When I have a rude dealer who won't flash the burned card despite my repeated requests, I just play along without complaining too much (although I stop tipping all together).
At Borgata, I pushed a heaping pile of green chips toward the dealer to color up, and the dealer insisted that I stack them up, which I did without complaining.

Kewljason, I didn't know about the $400 limit. That's good to know.
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
#15
#15
Uston

This is a prime example of the consequences of Ustons lawsuite.

Casinos in AC have no other alternative to protecting the BJ games than to do as above.

There is also a great amount of posting about exploits at the AC casinos, and Conneticut, conditions etc. This is a big mistake. Maybe that is why you have the worst conditions in the U.S.

The attitude and actions of the OP in this instance showed poor judgment.

I looked at his member date and was amazed, thought it was a newbie by his actions.

I would implore that all of you do some research on gambling addictions.

CP
 
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S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
WABJ11 said:
I don't live on the east coast, and frankly don't care if it's impossible to play there. I just wanted to have fun with them at that point.
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It doesn't matter where you live. This is the attitude of a fool. Problem is; no amount of explaining will ever make a fool understand this.
 
muppet

muppet

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
21forme said:
In AC, most dealers will show you if you ask. Many other places I wouldn't even consider asking to see it, including LV.
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it seems like so many people on these forums play in AC and i don't understand why..everything i've read about it makes it out to be a terrible place for a card counter. perhaps other ap techniques make up for the ac ugliness
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
creeping panther said:
This is a prime example of the consequences of Ustons lawsuite.

Casinos in AC have no other alternative to protecting the BJ games than to do as above.

There is also a great amount of posting about exploits at the AC casinos, and Conneticut, conditions etc. This is a big mistake. Maybe that is why you have the worst conditions in the U.S.

The attitude and actions of the OP in this instance showed poor judgment.

I looked at his member date and was amazed, thought it was a newbie by his actions.

I would implore that all of you do some research on gambling addictions.

CP
Click to expand...
I'm not saying what I did was smart, and I'm not looking for judgment on what I did either. I count as an avid hobby, I don't use it to pay my bills.

What still remains unanswered is if it is legal to make a bet without knowing if it will be accepted or not...
 
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