Need advice/input from all professionals. What's that one thing you would pass down?

[pitchblackjack]

Hi,

Thank you so much for checking out this thread. I've just recently got into counting and I know almost everyone is ahead by eons. You guys are the inspiration for me to learn.

I have one request and I'm a real fan on receiving advice from pros, and I'm sure almost everyone on the board will benefit from this thread.

What is your advice, that one nugget of gold, you'll pass on to another pro or a young counter on the come up? It can be about anything, the game itself, the casino, the repetoire, etc. Anything.

Thank you in advance!

"You want to learn from experience, but you want to learn from other people's experience when you can."

 

[KenSmith]

This is a good question, and I think we'll see some worthwhile posts here.

I'll start...

My single piece of advice is:
Don't wear out your welcome at low limits.

Just about everyone starts counting with a small bankroll and small bets. It's true that you can fly under the radar with small bets in most places, but if you camp out at the table for hours on end, most places will eventually catch on and give you the boot. Later, when you're betting enough to matter, you'll wish they didn't know who you were.

Play short sessions of an hour or so. Play different shifts. Spread your play around several casinos.

The only part of the normal caution that I do not advise for starting players is... Don't waste money on cover play at low bet levels. You can't afford it.

 

[ChefJJ]

I'm not a pro, but my piece of advice would be:

"Stay out of dark alleys."

No, seriously though-- "Don't chase your losses by deviating from your game plan. Whether that be your bet spread, bet level, basic strategies, etc."

good luck

 

[mdlbj]

Write down 3 reasons why you want to count cards then make a plan on how your going to make that happen.

 

[pitchblackjack]

I'm not a pro, but my piece of advice would be:

"Stay out of dark alleys."

No, seriously though-- "Don't chase your losses by deviating from your game plan. Whether that be your bet spread, bet level, basic strategies, etc."

good luck

Nice one. Hard one to keep, but I can already tell it's one to abide by.

 

[ihate17]

The gut check

First off, test yourself well before playing in a casino.

Then the gut check. The variance of blackjack can be extreme. Eventually you will have a great count and put out the proper big bets and the casino will kick your butt seriously. This happens to everyone, even if you have a long term edge.
The danger of this happening for some is what they do later. Counters who land up being lifetime losers are counters who fail to put out the proper bets when the count calls for it. Win or lose, this is something you must do if you are to maintain and not give your edge away.

ihate17

 

[Kasi]

My question, in general, would be how many of u get real "scientific".

Do u have different bet ramps to keep ROR same for different games/rules/penetration, different wonging points?

Do u all use sims to figure out your optimal bets, ROR for how long u might be playing for what u think u will be playing? Would u change anything if penetration changes from higher to lower kind of thing?

Do many of u play full kelly or some fraction?

Do u know your camo plays ahead of time?

Or, maybe, just go with some basic system from a book and maybe your gut from there?

OK - guess that was more than one qeustion lol.

 

[pitchblackjack]

First off, test yourself well before playing in a casino.

Then the gut check. The variance of blackjack can be extreme. Eventually you will have a great count and put out the proper big bets and the casino will kick your butt seriously. This happens to everyone, even if you have a long term edge.
The danger of this happening for some is what they do later. Counters who land up being lifetime losers are counters who fail to put out the proper bets when the count calls for it. Win or lose, this is something you must do if you are to maintain and not give your edge away.

ihate17

Thank you for the advice, and I hope I don't offend ya, but can you please explain more about the gut check?

Are you sayin' just to learn how to bet properly? And how do you not give your edge away?

 

[ihate17]

What I meant

Thank you for the advice, and I hope I don't offend ya, but can you please explain more about the gut check?

Are you sayin' just to learn how to bet properly? And how do you not give your edge away?

Because of the nature of blackjack, there will be a time where you have a huge edge against the casino and are putting out max bets but losing every single hand! That is where the gut check comes in along with normal human weakness. For many players what they will do in future situations is effected by what happened in this disaster situation and they no longerf spread properly, hedging their spread and making it more conservative. It results in giving away much of their expected gain lifetime as counters and is one of several reasons why many who attempt to count land up as lifetime losers.
Have the guts to spread properly even when the casino is kicking your butt!

ihate17

 

[MEDITANK]

Because of the nature of blackjack, there will be a time where you have a huge edge against the casino and are putting out max bets but losing every single hand! That is where the gut check comes in along with normal human weakness. For many players what they will do in future situations is effected by what happened in this disaster situation and they no longerf spread properly, hedging their spread and making it more conservative. It results in giving away much of their expected gain lifetime as counters and is one of several reasons why many who attempt to count land up as lifetime losers.
Have the guts to spread properly even when the casino is kicking your butt!

ihate17

Can fully relate to this comment, had a +4TC shoe a week ago, ramped up my bet to 10X, lost three hands in a row, then pulled (a martingale)a 25X bet out and luckily won that hand because I knew that the cut card was due out. The next hand it came out and also won that hand with another 25X out, so came out ahead luckily, but my ROR was sky high and fully knowing this. I read all of the posts in here and so far, knock on felt, I haven't experienced these horrendous 6 week losing streaks that others in here have gone thru. My current BR cannot sustain a streak like that, so I hope this streak won't hit me until months from now.

 

[ChefJJ]

Thank you for the advice, and I hope I don't offend ya, but can you please explain more about the gut check?

Are you sayin' just to learn how to bet properly? And how do you not give your edge away?

I think ihate21 put it well...you've got to stick to your betting plan/spread & basic strategy (including index plays) even when you feel like you're going to barf because you've got a huge bet out there, you need to make a play (like split, split again, and double) where you have to put more money on the felt, and, oh yeah, you've just lost 5 big hands in a row. That's a gut check.

good luck

 

[ihate17]

Another peice of input to pass down

Can fully relate to this comment, had a +4TC shoe a week ago, ramped up my bet to 10X, lost three hands in a row, then pulled (a martingale)a 25X bet out and luckily won that hand because I knew that the cut card was due out. The next hand it came out and also won that hand with another 25X out, so came out ahead luckily, but my ROR was sky high and fully knowing this. I read all of the posts in here and so far, knock on felt, I haven't experienced these horrendous 6 week losing streaks that others in here have gone thru. My current BR cannot sustain a streak like that, so I hope this streak won't hit me until months from now.

Meditank
You got away with overbetting your bankroll and you know it. But in giving advice to a new player, doing this would be another to add to the list of things not to do.
Basically, you fell victim to one of those naturally human emotions that can make you a loser over time and make that session one where your bankroll goes away. You steamed! You had the edge but bet too much because of those previous hands and luckily you won.
I believe at some point here I had mentioned that I have been doing this for 30 years. Though I have won in 9 of the past 10, during my first 5 years as a counter I lost in 3 of them and what you did was one of the things I did wrong at the time. I was playing a very favorable game back then but would just keep ramping my bets up, way over any sensible ROR, when I was losing on bets on +4 and higher counts. I just could not believe this was happening but it does and did. At the same time when things were going well I would stick with the proper bet amounts. So when some of those negative variance, positive shoes resulted in my losing bets where I was betting what should have been 5 or 6 times more than my mathematical max bet, and none of the winning shoes had me putting that much on the table, it turned me from what could have been a winner into a loser.

So, do not overbet your bankroll.

ihate17

 

[Mimosine]

Because of the nature of blackjack, there will be a time where you have a huge edge against the casino and are putting out max bets but losing every single hand! That is where the gut check comes in along with normal human weakness. For many players what they will do in future situations is effected by what happened in this disaster situation and they no longerf spread properly, hedging their spread and making it more conservative. It results in giving away much of their expected gain lifetime as counters and is one of several reasons why many who attempt to count land up as lifetime losers.
Have the guts to spread properly even when the casino is kicking your butt!

ihate17

i had this happen to me on a recent trip to vegas. even in high counts (in different games, in different casinos), with big bests out i couldn't win a damn hand. and it was really hard to keep pushing bets out there, after having enough, i just left the table, but it took a lot of self control to NOT a) shrink my spread, or b) increase my spread above my game plan.

to some degree you have to play like a machine....

 

[MEDITANK]

Meditank
You got away with overbetting your bankroll and you know it. But in giving advice to a new player, doing this would be another to add to the list of things not to do.
Basically, you fell victim to one of those naturally human emotions that can make you a loser over time and make that session one where your bankroll goes away. You steamed! You had the edge but bet too much because of those previous hands and luckily you won.
I believe at some point here I had mentioned that I have been doing this for 30 years. Though I have won in 9 of the past 10, during my first 5 years as a counter I lost in 3 of them and what you did was one of the things I did wrong at the time. I was playing a very favorable game back then but would just keep ramping my bets up, way over any sensible ROR, when I was losing on bets on +4 and higher counts. I just could not believe this was happening but it does and did. At the same time when things were going well I would stick with the proper bet amounts. So when some of those negative variance, positive shoes resulted in my losing bets where I was betting what should have been 5 or 6 times more than my mathematical max bet, and none of the winning shoes had me putting that much on the table, it turned me from what could have been a winner into a loser.

So, do not overbet your bankroll.

ihate17

Thanks ihate17, I know I pulled a bonehead emotional stunt and luckily got away with it. Negative variance is a nasty thing and like I said before, I have been fortunate, especially reading others experience about 6 week long losing streaks. I can see why alot of counters cannot make it but an elite few with gigantic BR's. Mine is only 4K, but I only travel around with 500 in my wallet. So far so good, but I know my day is coming if I don't change my ways. again, thanks for the advice and your experience.

 

[Kasi]

I can see why alot of counters cannot make it but an elite few with gigantic BR's. Mine is only 4K, but I only travel around with 500 in my wallet.

H17 gave good advice. I was wondering how u bet what game with ur $4K roll.


I would think it's enough to win money with - maybe 400 to 800 units?

 

[Craps Master]

What is your advice, that one nugget of gold, you'll pass on to another pro or a young counter on the come up? It can be about anything, the game itself, the casino, the repetoire, etc. Anything.

Don't take advice about professional level blackjack from a bunch of people on an internet messageboard. Chances are, you're just getting misinformation, and you'd be better off just flying blind.

 

[pitchblackjack]

I think I'll appreciate whatever's written and use what will suit me the best.

 

[Mimosine]

I think I'll appreciate whatever's written and use what will suit me the best.

a wise move. as you already know there is a wealth of information on here from a variety of talented, smart, honest, and colorful people!

separating the wheat from the chaff isn't too difficult either.

 

[Cardcounter]

3 tips to maximize profits at the casino!

1. Get a players card every place you go you never know some places might send you free money in the mail. I consider getting match play coupons free money. Other places have sent me coupons to redem for cash. Plus I earn comps and can eat at a lot of casinos for free.

2. Never over bet your bankroll it does not matter how high the count is. Always bet an amount you are comfortable with even if you have to split 3 times to make 4 hands. If doubling is allowed you could get as much as 7 times more than your orginal bet. The most I remember getting out there was 5 times my orginal bet.

3. If you lose a couple of hands playing the correct stragedy do not deviate or get gun shy especially playing these hands especially if these are double down hands. Keep playing the way that gives you the best chance to win even if you are not winning at the moment.

 

[Brutus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchblackjack
What is your advice, that one nugget of gold, you'll pass on to another pro or a young counter on the come up? It can be about anything, the game itself, the casino, the repetoire, etc. Anything.

the advise so far has been solid

• get your basic strategy down cold.