New Friends

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#41
Uh, I have a few questions

RJT said:
Well if you change your mind feel free to ask. I'll do what i can to answer and anything i can't, i'm sure that Bojack will.
My first is why a team would fail to exploit a "beard" in the form of a visitor from the UK for some high-risk, high-profit activity. A young Briton is going to look like a lamb for the slaughter in the vulgar, ugly environment of Atlantic City and being also a skilled player could get away with some wonderful things for the duration of his visit. I could surely fit you out as some arrogant young lord on holiday and you would be my "big player", if I chose to use that kind of a team approach. That is, if my intention was to make money alongside you, rather than from you.

Secondly, you said that you were mostly backcounting without playing but you also said you were fronted money. Unless you were placing large bets, why would anyone need to front you money? Any player with sufficient experience for any kind of team play would have sufficient bankroll to place table minimum bets.

Thirdly, you said you were merely backcounting for "big players" but not prepared to bet big. What would happen if you saw a good count or other opportunity but there was no big player available to play it? I do believe your "new friends" would rather see it dealt out than allow you to play it. In my world, there is no such thing as seeing a good count on a blackjack table and not playing it with the fully appropriate bet. That is a sin.

Fourthly, you state that "no member of this team has ever been backed off." Do you think that any experienced player here believes that statement? We have all been backed off (and sometimes worse) many times, dozens of times, and most of us continue to go back and play at places where we have been backed off repeatedly. I did that last night, myself. A full-timer can be backed off several times per month. Anyone who claims to be a veteran AP who has never been backed off is either lying about being a veteran AP or lying about never being backed off.

Fifthly, are you aware it is illegal in Atlantic City for casinos to back off skilled players? Thus there is no need for cover for visiting players or hit-and-run team attacks. Only long-term players who are interested in accruing comps have to be careful to avoid half-shoeing in some stores. Your new friends did tell you this, didn't they?

Sixthly (are these adverbs even words still?) if you as a backcounter were to reverse the count, would it be possible for a big player to come in on your call and do anything but lose money? Would he not continue to bet big into a mirage advantage as the low cards kept coming out and the count appeared to get even higher while he was still betting with a negative advantage? Surely this would be worse than a highly skilled counter sending a rookie in to play a shoe that most definitely had an advantage even if the rookie made a counting error or two, would it not? Admit it, you have enough knowledge to answer this question and you know that the claim that a BP has to be a better counter than a spotter is rubbish.

I don't want to say "seventhly", so I'll (thankfully) say finally- do you think it's even possible that I could be right and your encounter was with an organization more interested in giving false hope to novice players that they have a chance of finding themselves on something like the as-seen-on-TV MIT team if they purchase overpriced training aids and services, than in actively making money from casinos? If I'm wrong, you have met the only blackjack team in the world that discusses team activities on public message boards.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#42
Automatic Monkey said:
My first is why a team would fail to exploit a "beard" in the form of a visitor from the UK for some high-risk, high-profit activity.
Secondly, you said that you were mostly backcounting without playing but you also said you were fronted money.
Thirdly, you said you were merely backcounting for "big players" but not prepared to bet big. What would happen if you saw a good count or other opportunity but there was no big player available to play it?
Fourthly, you state that "no member of this team has ever been backed off." Fifthly, are you aware it is illegal in Atlantic City for casinos to back off skilled players? Thus there is no need for cover for visiting players or hit-and-run team attacks.
Sixthly (are these adverbs even words still?) if you as a backcounter were to reverse the count
I don't want to say "seventhly", so I'll (thankfully) say finally- do you think it's even possible that I could be right and your encounter was with an organization more interested in giving false hope to novice players that they have a chance of finding themselves on something like the as-seen-on-TV MIT team if they purchase overpriced training aids and services, than in actively making money from casinos? If I'm wrong, you have met the only blackjack team in the world that discusses team activities on public message boards.
I got no axe to grind here so I'll take my shot at expected responses.

Firstly, he's a robot with a role to play and it makes no difference what country he is from.
#2 He was fronted as much as necessary to fulfill his role, whether back-counting or merely flat-betting. The team could care less whether he has enough personal bankroll and skill to AP or not.
#3 Built-in to the overall scheme for the occasional time it happens. They probably don't want a caller blowing his cover by varying his bets in + shoes.
Not his role and not worth the risk.
#4 How many times was Ian Anderson backed off in 20 years?
#5 Of course they do but who wants to be shuffled up every hand?
#6 If anyone was stupid enough to reverse a count, they wouldn't be there.
I'm probably missing something here since it makes so little sense. When's the last time u reversed a count?
#7 Basics of team play are discussed everywhere. I don't think any details were given that compromise anything. Novices should realize beating a casino thru card-counting can be done. What, u don't think that? Ur saying an individual card-counter can win money but not a team? Again, probably misisng something here.
 

Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#43
Monkey your act is getting old. All of your questions have been answered whether you like the answers or not. Kasi also has summed it up fairly well, proving not having a personal agenda while reading allows you to view these posts objectively. You have a gripe with me, thats fine, you are of no real consequence. Just to reiterate, I have never asked for one cent from anyone who I've met about blackjack. If you earn the right to play on my team you play with my money, no risk to the players personal money, and get compensated accordingly. As far as being the first to discuss team activities publicly, thats just stupid. I think Al Francesco would tell you different when asked about Ken Uston. The difference being anything I have ever said never has been in anyway been able to hinder the success of my team. For example I have never included player descriptions, unit size, bankroll size, or really any monetary amounts at all, never disclosed signals or codes used, never given an announcement on future venues to be played, and the few trip reports given where after the fact, more for playing conditions than anything else. Any allegations you bring against me are easily refuted and unsubstantiated, so tread lightly. You want to be regarded as a message board guru, thats fine, I want no part of that. I will continue to play the game as I see fit, with those that I choose to, and those that choose to with me, with or without your rather redundant wrongful reasoning. It is of no concern what you think or believe, and any who read your opinion, well they can draw their own conclusions. But I offer this to anyone and not just the chunky monkey, if there is anyone who reads this board or who has come in contact with me that has been wronged, or been asked for money, or just been given bum advice where they feel it has hurt their game please come forward so we can substansiate all that has been said about me to be true or false.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#44
This thread has gone waaaaay off topic. It was meant to be about the trust issues involved in team play. I think that was covered pretty well, as well as a few other topics. Since this thread seems to have run its course I’m going to lock it down. Any new issues should be started as a new thread.

I would also like to thank everyone for their respectful behavior. I’m glad to say that I didn’t have to edit or delete any posts from this thread due to vulgar language or abusive content. Let’s quit while we’re ahead. :)

-Sonny-
 
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