Partner Play?

[Caesar]

Partner play is playing both sides of a game with a partner with the idea of getting comps at little or no risk.
According to Larry Edell, craps(pass/don't pass) is the best for this sort of thing. The free odds bet helps make craps attractive for this method. He suggests a crowded craps table standing on opposite sides from your partner--who does not share the same last name. But if a 12 comes the pass line player loses his money.
Wouldn't baccarat or mini-baccarat(player/banker) work better? After all, neither the player nor the banker loses when there is a tie.
Has anyone tried this? :devil:

 

[Sucker]

This is one of the oldest (and one of the dumbest) moves in the book. It's NOT little to no risk. It's exactly DOUBLE the risk.
Almost every casino in the world will be more than happy to let you bet BOTH sides of a proposition, whether it be craps, baccarat, or any other game that you're stupid enough to do it with. This should tell you something.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Partner play is playing both sides of a game with a partner with the idea of getting comps at little or no risk.
According to Larry Edell, craps(pass/don't pass) is the best for this sort of thing. The free odds bet helps make craps attractive for this method. He suggests a crowded craps table standing on opposite sides from your partner--who does not share the same last name. But if a 12 comes the pass line player loses his money.
Wouldn't baccarat or mini-baccarat(player/banker) work better? After all, neither the player nor the banker loses when there is a tie.
Has anyone tried this? :devil:

If your sharing a common bank to build two serperate comp rewards balances variance is reduced. Assuming you won't use AP methods, evalutating the best game will depend on how the casino comps play and game speed. IF odds bets are counted, game speed, and how the casino comps each game will all be factors to decide which is best. Sitting out hands while being comped for them is ideal.

 

[FLASH1296]

"… IF odds bets are counted"

NEVER. Not debatable.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Partner play is playing both sides of a game with a partner with the idea of getting comps at little or no risk.
According to Larry Edell, craps(pass/don't pass) is the best for this sort of thing. The free odds bet helps make craps attractive for this method. He suggests a crowded craps table standing on opposite sides from your partner--who does not share the same last name. But if a 12 comes the pass line player loses his money.
Wouldn't baccarat or mini-baccarat(player/banker) work better? After all, neither the player nor the banker loses when there is a tie.
Has anyone tried this? :devil:

For a second I thought that was a good idea, but the guy playing the bank has to pay the commission.

 

[MangoJ]

For a second I thought that was a good idea, but the guy playing the bank has to pay the commission.

Technically thats not a problem, and can be adjusted for.

 

[ChefJJ]

Wouldn't baccarat or mini-baccarat(player/banker) work better? After all, neither the player nor the banker loses when there is a tie.
Has anyone tried this? :devil:

Is the commission for the banker in bacc 5%?

And the doey-don't craps play (partner or no) is still susceptible to come-out 12s, which yields a theoretical loss every 2.78% rolls, or 1 in 36. Since this is applied only to the come-out rolls (which are very roughly 25% of the time), the only redeeming quality to playing this way is that losing decisions (12 on the come-out) are less frequent than paying the commission in bacc.

Maybe these figures (5% commission in bacc vs. 2.77% loss in craps) are apples and oranges, but that's a quick view on my part. In either case, I imagine that the partner play must be essentially undetectable to earn those comps.

good luck :joker:

 

[Caesar]

Interesting ideas

I had forgotten about the 5% baccarat commission. Given the speed of mini-baccarat, that may be significant. Also, a mini-baccarat table may be too small and harder to remain anonymous.:grin:
On the craps table, the only question would be whether to take/lay odds. Mr. Edell suggests taking odds on 5,6,8,9 on the pass side and laying them for the 4 and 10 on the don't side. :cool2:

 

[pit15]

If you can't handle the variance then you shouldn't be putting bets on the felt.

Not only does this strategy result in you still paying the house edge, there's a chance the PC decides to **** you on your rating if he realizes what's going on.

And don't think that boxcars can't roll a few times in a row.

I would recommend putting your effort into coming up w/ some kind of advantage play then getting your comps that way. Don't try to delude yourself into thinking you're pulling one over on the casino with some cheap comp hustle. Casinos make a good chunk of their money off suckers who play for comps.

Of course, advantage play also requires a bankroll and the ability to stomach the variance. If you don't have the money, or can't handle the variance, I'm going to put it bluntly: go get a job.

I've heard of plenty of these partner play stories that end in the people losing far more then they thought they could, and getting comped far less then they thought they would. I've never heard anyone say that it went great and that they got comped loads.

Let's put it this way. From my own personal experience. I've played 3 card poker at 2 hands of 150 for 4 hours. If I'm LUCKY i'll get ~ 200 comp dollars, and maybe a few free friday/saturday rooms. I can't tell you how many times I've been ****ed on the rating and got far less then I deserve. So a $300 average bet on a game that's pretty decent for comps for 4 hours nets that.

 

[ChefJJ]

On the craps table, the only question would be whether to take/lay odds. Mr. Edell suggests taking odds on 5,6,8,9 on the pass side and laying them for the 4 and 10 on the don't side. :cool2:

It really doesn't matter from a pure HE standpoint because they are all zero-HE bets. However, if you are doing this purely for comps, odds should not be part of the equation. Just pump up the line bets instead since those are the bets that the comps are based on, not the odds.

Again though, this is not a zero-sum play because of the come-out 12s. But it could have good comp implications if you can pull it off. Can't say that I've tried this first hand.

 

[rrwoods]

This is honestly a fine way to earn comps with very little variance. Just don't delusion yourself into thinking it's a surefire way to do it without losing any money at all. As has been previously stated you are still "paying" the house edge -- and in fact you can't ever win -- but as far as variance goes it's great.

It's also great for match plays. For even-money-only MP coupons saved on ties, craps don't and craps pass are two of the best bets in the casino. If you have a way of getting one on each you significantly reduce variance at essentially no loss in EV.

 

[pit15]

The problem is a lot of pits will screw you on the rating if they realize what's going on.

Doing match plays that way can also potentially generate heat. I'm the last one to preach about worrying about heat, but taking a risk for something with no EV is just silly.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I had two match play coupons once and walked up to the craps table and put one on the Pass.

The dealer said "Put the other one on the Don't Pass! Smartest thing to do!"

 

[FLASH1296]

For those who have not noticed — in casinos that I know — Match play
coupons are only playable on one side of a proposition. Read the fine print.

You can bet the Pass Line but NOT the Don't Pass at Craps.

You can bet the Player but NOT the Bank at Mini-Baccarat.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If you can't handle the variance then you shouldn't be putting bets on the felt.

Not only does this strategy result in you still paying the house edge, there's a chance the PC decides to **** you on your rating if he realizes what's going on.

And don't think that boxcars can't roll a few times in a row....

If you have to, you can have a partner place 1% of the big bets on a straight 12 for come-out, to hedge boxcars only. And having more than one partner splitting up the do and don't randomly will probably confuse the PC as to who is who's partner, especially at a table where there is unrelated big action.

But you have to have a REALLY good reason for doing any of this in the first place. I have never encountered such a reason in a live craps game. Laundering cheques, perhaps.

 

[bj bob]

Is the commission for the banker in bacc 5%?

And the doey-don't craps play (partner or no) is still susceptible to come-out 12s, which yields a theoretical loss every 2.78% rolls, or 1 in 36. :

Just go to Reno, JJ, they don't bar 12's. :grin: Problem solved!

 

[ChefJJ]

Just go to Reno, JJ, they don't bar 12's. :grin: Problem solved!

What, do they bar the 2 instead :grin: ???

Good hearin' from ya, Bob!!! It's been quite a while!

 

[The Chaperone]

This is a stupid idea. Just learn how to play video poker. Find some machines that are close to break even and you will get comped whatever you want.

 

[WRX]

You are NOT going to come out ahead using opposition betting on negative-expectation games to play for comps. The house is smart enough not to be giving away more in comps than it expects to win from you taking into account your verified level of betting. Opposition betting doesn't change this fundamental fact. The exception would be that as a new player, you might be able to generate room offers through opposition betting at high stakes for a short time, with the value of the rooms exceeding your expected loss. But as Chaperone indicates, there are better ways to do it.

Using opposition betting as a way to wash match play coupons is an especially poor idea. If pit bosses don't much like seeing two friends bet similar amounts opposite ways on craps or baccarat or roulette, they absolutely HATE it when there are coupons involved. (Never mind the occasional dealer who doesn't care.) On one level, this makes no sense, because the house edge has the same average effect whether a player is betting just one side of a proposition or both. But it's true that making opposing bets with coupons is a dead giveaway that the player doesn't intend to gamble with the house, and is just there to grind out a profit from the coupons and then run.

Now if you want to be smarter about it, it's quite possible to devise a perfect hedge that features only one of the two partners playing the coupons. And if you don't let on that you're friends, the hedge tends to be invisible, because you'll be betting different amounts. Think about it.

 

[bj bob]

What, do they bar the 2 instead :grin: ???

Good hearin' from ya, Bob!!! It's been quite a while!

Dammit JJ, now the whole world knows about our dirty little secret! :flame: