Question about Basic strategy with card counting

M

M7a

New Member
when you are counting cards, are you playing basic strategy when the hand is in your favor, or are you changing basic strategy according to your count?
Say in a situation where you would usually double down on your 11 but you know there are some low cards comming.

Thank you
 
When counting cards you are using basic strategy about 80-90% of the time. There are ways to play certain hands based on the count, but most of them don't happen very often. Basic strategy is the correct way to play most of the time.

-Sonny-
 
M7a said:
when you are counting cards, are you playing basic strategy when the hand is in your favor, or are you changing basic strategy according to your count?
Say in a situation where you would usually double down on your 11 but you know there are some low cards comming.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Search for the illustrious 18. They will tell you the ways to change strategy that occur most frequently.
 
M7a said:
Say in a situation where you would usually double down on your 11 but you know there are some low cards comming.
Click to expand...

you will almost NEVER reach a count so bad that you shouldn't double on 11, but you do have the right idea, that different counts mean different decisions. most of the deviations from BS occur in high counts. Insurance being the most important of the I-18.

in terms of beating a game, bet ramping is more important than BS deviations, because as Sonny pointed out, you'll play BS 80+% of the time. But making the correct "index plays" can have a big impact on top of bet ramping.
 
Mimosine said:
you will almost NEVER reach a count so bad that you shouldn't double on 11...
Click to expand...

The big exception to "almost NEVER" being you're playing an H17 game and get an 11 vs Ace.


Mimosine said:
most of the deviations from BS occur in high counts
Click to expand...

Mimosine

Using full indices in Hi-Lo do more recommended deviations from BS occur using negative or positive indices.

A: Negative
 
Kasi said:
Using full indices in Hi-Lo do more recommended deviations from BS occur using negative or positive indices.

A: Negative
Click to expand...
Is that some kind of trick question/answer?

If a negative count calls for a negative index, and there is no counter to play it, is it still negative?

If a man stands alone in the forest talking aloud, and there is no woman near enough to hear him, is he still wrong? zg
 
Kasi said:
The big exception to "almost NEVER" being you're playing an H17 game and get an 11 vs Ace.
Mimosine
Using full indices in Hi-Lo do more recommended deviations from BS occur using negative or positive indices.
A: Negative
Click to expand...

well, if you're smart, and that is the assumption/benefit of the doubt i generally try to abide by, if the count tanks that bad, it's either time to take a piss, or to refuse to bet on the hand. but i guess not all of us are capable of making that decision.

Kasi, only in your world, do negative index plays matter. for the rest of us, we only care about the first 20 or so index plays, and about 80+% of them are referred to as positive indicies. we make them in high counts, where we hit less and double more. rather than in your world, where i imagine the TC is always -10 and you're hitting hard 15s against 5's and hitting your 10's against a dealer 6. :/ i'll keep my eye out for players like you, as a sign that the shoe is "cold."
 
Mimosine said:
well, if you're smart, and that is the assumption/benefit of the doubt i generally try to abide by, if the count tanks that bad, it's either time to take a piss, or to refuse to bet on the hand. but i guess not all of us are capable of making that decision.
Click to expand...
I just glanced at my 80 or so #s and most of them are POSITIVE. zg
 
Mimosine said:
well, if you're smart, and that is the assumption/benefit of the doubt i generally try to abide by, if the count tanks that bad, it's either time to take a piss, or to refuse to bet on the hand. but i guess not all of us are capable of making that decision.

Kasi, only in your world, do negative index plays matter. for the rest of us, we only care about the first 20 or so index plays, and about 80+% of them are referred to as positive indicies. we make them in high counts, where we hit less and double more. rather than in your world, where i imagine the TC is always -10 and you're hitting hard 15s against 5's and hitting your 10's against a dealer 6. :/ i'll keep my eye out for players like you, as a sign that the shoe is "cold."
Click to expand...

lol i'm not sure what Kasi does but i think i'm going to find out. but i know he likes making index plays especially if it upsets other players at the table lol.
but Mimosine your describing the world i live in. although i do try an escape the negative parts of it on occasion. and lol i got a good excuse too cause at my age one has to pee about every five minutes or so. being the case i've been sorely tempted to hit hard 15 against the dealer 5 but have never done it. i doubt i could ever bring myself to do the 10v6 though lol.
but it's my world for the most part, yep thats just the way it is for the joints i'm able to excercise 99% of my play in. so i'd seriously be interested in a I18 for cold shoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasi
Using full indices in Hi-Lo do more recommended deviations from BS occur using negative or positive indices.

A: Negative
----------------------------------------------------------------
Is that some kind of trick question/answer?

If a negative count calls for a negative index, and there is no counter to play it, is it still negative?

If a man stands alone in the forest talking aloud, and there is no woman near enough to hear him, is he still wrong? zg
Click to expand...

hey Zen some of us are just happy with a even the remotest chance of making a score :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
M7a said:
when you are counting cards, are you playing basic strategy when the hand is in your favor, or are you changing basic strategy according to your count?
Say in a situation where you would usually double down on your 11 but you know there are some low cards comming.

Thank you
Click to expand...

According to k_c's cdca program, the removal of three tens, justify's hitting 11 vs X, opposed to doubling In a single deck game.
 
Thanks for the help guys!
I am going to buy wong's book professional blackjack soon, and will be back to ask more questions after I do my homework!
 
Kasi said:
The big exception to "almost NEVER" being you're playing an H17 game and get an 11 vs Ace.




Mimosine

Using full indices in Hi-Lo do more recommended deviations from BS occur using negative or positive indices.

A: Negative
Click to expand...

another exception would be ENHC games. ive never played them but i know there are situations where you wouldnt neccessarily double against 10s or Aces because you could lose your original bets PLUS double/split bet when the dealer draws his hole card and wins.
 
zengrifter;71433If a negative count calls for a negative index said:
Well, you know, that was just in case that in the history of the world a single counter may have actually played all the hands of a shoe once. Or twice maybe. Who knows for sure?

It could even encompass the assumption, perhaps a leap in your or Mimosine's world, that a counter could actually identify a game in which he is better off playing all the hands of a shoe rather than backcounting some other game.

You know, on the offchance he may actually care about which game would have a greater hourly win rate.

I did say full indices of which there are about 200.
Click to expand...
 
importance of negative and positive indices

Say you play all because perhaps that is your style or after hitting the boys room on 3 straight negative shoes you figure a 4th might be overdoing it in a house with no mid-shoe entry. So the count is negative again and if your knowledge of negative indices is limited, your mistakes will be minimum hits to your overall EV because you are betting the table minimum on each hand.

The positive indices are far more important because here your bets are much higher. So when someone here says they know far more positve indices than negative ones it is not necessarily because there are more positve ones, it is because the positive ones are far more valuable.

I know all these indices for true counts that run from +1 thru+10, but ask me what to do at a true count of -5 and the best I can tell you make a cell phone call, look frustrated needing to wait for the new shoe (new shoe = new hope) or just go to the restroom.

ihate17
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top