Ratholing

[rdorange]

Casinos do try to keep track of ratholers. In this example I don't even consider it ratholing. I just put it in my pocket and changed games for less.
Last week at Beau in MS. I played some DD and was down $100. Left the table and went to Craps. I bought in for $200 at one table and my wife bought in on the next table over. After about an hour, I colored in for $375. I put one black chip in my pocket and went to join my wife on the other table. I gave them my players card and 2 black chips, and put the $75 in chips in my rack. The box man and dealer gave me my red and green change and the boxman said, "and you still have the other black in your pocket, right?" I don't think he actually new it was in my pocket, but when he swiped my card, he saw I just cashed out for $375 and only bought in for $275. They do pay attention and keep track of the black chips, even just one!

 

[EmeraldCityBJ]

Black chips are almost always tracked

Every casino tracks their black chips, and ratholing black chips is a waste of time. The only exception might be the high limit tables in the largest casinos (I'll let the folks who have a big enough BR to play those games comment further on this). I also don't think you need to worry much about "getting caught" putting a black chip in your pocket. Many players will pocket black chips after awhile with the idea that it's going to stay in their pocket until they get to the cage.

If you're going to rathole, you'll need to do it with smaller denomination chips since they are not tracked as closely. Usually green chips are the best to rathole, but you need to make sure that there are other players either playing green or coloring up green for it to be effective.

 

[glovesetc]

ratholing just wears your pockets out

I play black , and purple and do not rathole cause I know that they know where everyone of them is anyhow . Even in smaller denominations you would need pockets down to your socks to rathole a sizeable amount anyway and for green chips you would need pockets down to your knees. Pure waste of time in my opinion unless you are hiding it from the wife !!! If you rathole green and they need a couple fills cause the chips are disappearing they do not need to call Sherlock Holmes to figure it out !!!!! :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

Casinos do try to keep track of ratholers. In this example I don't even consider it ratholing. I just put it in my pocket and changed games for less.
Last week at Beau in MS. I played some DD and was down $100. Left the table and went to Craps. I bought in for $200 at one table and my wife bought in on the next table over. After about an hour, I colored in for $375. I put one black chip in my pocket and went to join my wife on the other table. I gave them my players card and 2 black chips, and put the $75 in chips in my rack. The box man and dealer gave me my red and green change and the boxman said, "and you still have the other black in your pocket, right?" I don't think he actually new it was in my pocket, but when he swiped my card, he saw I just cashed out for $375 and only bought in for $275. They do pay attention and keep track of the black chips, even just one!

I generally don't rathole anymore, because it's one of the signs casinos look for in spotting advantage players. If I do decide to rathole for whatever reason, I do it during the game, such as between shoes, so that when I cash out there is no discrepancy as happened to you. I usually use green chips unless they are giving me a lot of blacks in the course of the game.

 

[ihate17]

You need not rathole that much

I play black , and purple and do not rathole cause I know that they know where everyone of them is anyhow . Even in smaller denominations you would need pockets down to your socks to rathole a sizeable amount anyway and for green chips you would need pockets down to your knees. Pure waste of time in my opinion unless you are hiding it from the wife !!! If you rathole green and they need a couple fills cause the chips are disappearing they do not need to call Sherlock Holmes to figure it out !!!!! :grin: :cool2:

You can not hide a big win ratholing and if that is what your plan is, forget it.
There is no reason to rathole in a casino that you will not return to.

If there is a casino that you play in often, ratholing is a good method to carefully prevent a backoff based on lifetime win. If for instance, your EV on the game is $50 per hour, all you have to do is ratehole 3 or 4 green chips per hour and your EV, in the casino's mind, becomes negative. In an hours time people will come into a table with green, so pocket a chip or two. Someone colors up and walks with a green or two, pocket a chip. Going to the restroom, pocket a chip. If you have just a few green chips, do not pocket any but if you have a dozen or more, it will not be noticed. If the rack is running short of green, do not pocket any. When you have a lot of chips, keep them disorganized.

If you run out of chips on the table, buy more with cash and do not pull out the green.
If you have pocketed some black or purple (the pit knows this) keep them in a separate pocket, so if you are reaching for chips for a bet you do not pull out the green.
Periodically cash them in if you play long sessions in that casino.
If you play on higher stake tables and go to a new table, they generally list the buy in, in $100 amounts. In the first couple of hands you can fidget in your pockets and pull out a couple of those greens to use on the new table.

But again, never think of ratholing as a way to fool the pit into thinking you did not win (or lose) big if that is what happened. They will approximately know and too much ratholing will arouse suspicion.

ihate17

 

[EasyRhino]

rdorange, it sounds like in your case they were tracking black chips more intently (common at many places).

I haven't played much at tables that have $500, $1k, and $5k chips in the rack. I've been curious if missing a few blacks would be a non-event at such tables... but I haven't been willing to try it.

 

[glovesetc]

well I have

been going to the same casino with the same group of guys for almost 2 years and we never rathole cause to us it is a waste of time actually . By the way we are way up on this casino and get zero heat !!!!! Indian casino in New York . Hopefully after my operation heals I will be able to go up there again at least a couple times a month for sure . :grin: :cool2:

 

[Kaiser]

I have a hard time believing they track chips that close. I used to do it all the time, even before I started counting. I'd pocket the chips I started with after I got up a bit, so that I was now only playing with "the profits", etc. I know a lot of people who do this, and they ain't APs.

There are a few things that I'm kind of scared doing now, and they're things I did all the time without giving it a second thought before I started counting. I wonder sometimes if we don't just make ourselves paranoid worrying about all of this stuff.

 

[Cardcounter]

Ratholing crowed tables!

Ratholing will only work on crowed tables if you are playing heads up with the dealer they will know actually how much you won. Because the pit perodically writes down how many chips are in the tray. If there are 3 other people at your table you can rathole a couple of chips and it will be harder for the pit to figure out who got what. By the why ratholing is common with ploppies too who want to lock up a win for the day. Another trick to throw of the pit is to buy chips frequently rather than make a big chip purchase. It is much harder to remember 4 or 5 buy ins than to remember 1 or 2. When you have 4 or 5 buy ins you can over estimate and say you bought in for $3,000 when it might only be $2,800! You can only rathole black if the person next to you is betting black. The whole trick to ratholing is pinning the win on another player. If you rathole a lot of chips only cashout what they think you have and take your chips to another casino in buy in to another game with foreign checks.

 

[glovesetc]

will not work in

Most casinos as they are forbidden from taking chips from another establishment by gaming commission bylaws . New york , Conn., Bahamas, Mississippi , and Indiana and Illinois you can not for sure !!!! :grin: :cool2:

 

[glovesetc]

actually what is the big deal

with ratholing ? Who cares if they or your buddies do NOT know what you won or lost . When we go we buy in for 5k- to 9.5 k as it is easier to do and personally I could care less about sticking a few chips in my pocket . I think that is a waste of time and effort . My girlfriend comes to the table and I will give her a few blacks to play the $5.00 slots to keep her occupied for awhile so is that ratholing in a way ??? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!! :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

I have a hard time believing they track chips that close. I used to do it all the time, even before I started counting. I'd pocket the chips I started with after I got up a bit, so that I was now only playing with "the profits", etc. I know a lot of people who do this, and they ain't APs.

There are a few things that I'm kind of scared doing now, and they're things I did all the time without giving it a second thought before I started counting. I wonder sometimes if we don't just make ourselves paranoid worrying about all of this stuff.

One late morning at the Taj Mahal in AC I witnessed the pit boss interrogating the dealer to try and figure out where the black chips went. All the dealer could come up with was that he thought so and so pocketed a bunch of blacks. The pit was real concerned that he could figure it out down to the last chip. There did not seem to be any suspicion on the dealer himself. But I tell the story because it does demonstrate how a pit or a casino might actually be a whole lot more interested in tracing blacks than you would think. It changed my entire perspective on the subject.

 

[rdorange]

Not ratholing

When I started this thread, half my point was that I was not ratholing, but just moving from one table to the next. In the process, the boxman knew what I had and what I was transferring from one table to the next.

However, sonce I brought it up, when I am on a big win streak, I do rathole. But only green. If I get more than $100 or $200 I go to the restroom and will stop at the cashier and trade my extra green for cash. After returning to the table, if I run low on funds, I will buy in with the cash. :cool2:

 

[aslan]

When I started this thread, half my point was that I was not ratholing, but just moving from one table to the next. In the process, the boxman knew what I had and what I was transferring from one table to the next.

However, sonce I brought it up, when I am on a big win streak, I do rathole. But only green. If I get more than $100 or $200 I go to the restroom and will stop at the cashier and trade my extra green for cash. After returning to the table, if I run low on funds, I will buy in with the cash. :cool2:

Good move!

 

[glovesetc]

I must of misunderstood

you are a red chip player and I was under the assumption you were a green or black . Ok now it makes sense to do that and everytime you buy in you get more and more comp points as well . This year I have gotten a Kitchen aid blender , 48" flat screen tv - just delivered - , DVD players , Ipod phone , Cd player , and so much stuff it is unreal . They take a big loss on us - I wonder why they have not booted us !!!!!! :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

you are a red chip player and I was under the assumption you were a green or black . Ok now it makes sense to do that and everytime you buy in you get more and more comp points as well . This year I have gotten a Kitchen aid blender , 48" flat screen tv - just delivered - , DVD players , Ipod phone , Cd player , and so much stuff it is unreal . They take a big loss on us - I wonder why they have not booted us !!!!!! :grin: :cool2:

You are solid citizens and you don't count! What more could they ask for? I guess they figure they'll get you sooner or later. And I bet they don't keep track of all the loot you're getting. Keep up the good work!

 

[glovesetc]

we count but

we are nowhere the class of you players in here with all the ap/TC/ hi-lo type variances and etc that the majority of the people in here use . Very simple count system is all we use . In clarifying it we play for recreation and of course hate to lose as we are all very competive in our work life . Go into a business deal and we will rip your heart out and saute it but we are fair but drive hard bargains and especially today cash is king - believe it . Think the sub prime credit thing was a mess - go to MSN money today and read the blurb on 950 BILLION out in unsecured credit card debt . The banks are going to be hitting stiff 16's all night long . Ouch !!!!!! :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

we are nowhere the class of you players in here with all the ap/TC/ hi-lo type variances and etc that the majority of the people in here use . Very simple count system is all we use . In clarifying it we play for recreation and of course hate to lose as we are all very competive in our work life . Go into a business deal and we will rip your heart out and saute it but we are fair but drive hard bargains and especially today cash is king - believe it . Think the sub prime credit thing was a mess - go to MSN money today and read the blurb on 950 BILLION out in unsecured credit card debt . The banks are going to be hitting stiff 16's all night long . Ouch !!!!!! :grin: :cool2:

Ouch!!! I hear you!

How do you count? KO? That's what I use and you can practically do it in your sleep.

 

[glovesetc]

yes asian

that is what I use and a couple of the other guys use the A/10 front count and the others are just basic strategy with big bet variances my friend . Maybe they figure they will get us sooner or later but then again good luck on that idea . All play with big BK if needed and the most they can grab us for is 5k-9k whereas we can grab then for a whole lot more especially if the cards are flowing and the deck is positive ! If we had to worry about car payments , mortgages, college tuitions etc we would not even walk into a casino , Short money spells a disaster anywhere - gambling , casino , sports betting , trying to buy a competitor out , or whatever my friend . Large money will guarantee the deals will find you as long as your business reputation is spotless and you have AAA credit . You heard about the certain ethnic that took a knife to a gunfight I am sure !!! He was short all the way - LMAO . :grin: :cool2:

 

[aslan]

that is what I use and a couple of the other guys use the A/10 front count and the others are just basic strategy with big bet variances my friend . Maybe they figure they will get us sooner or later but then again good luck on that idea . All play with big BK if needed and the most they can grab us for is 5k-9k whereas we can grab then for a whole lot more especially if the cards are flowing and the deck is positive ! If we had to worry about car payments , mortgages, college tuitions etc we would not even walk into a casino , Short money spells a disaster anywhere - gambling , casino , sports betting , trying to buy a competitor out , or whatever my friend . Large money will guarantee the deals will find you as long as your business reputation is spotless and you have AAA credit . You heard about the certain ethnic that took a knife to a gunfight I am sure !!! He was short all the way - LMAO . :grin: :cool2:

My thinking is like yours. And if you're now using KO, I don't think you have anything to worry about. My gambling buddy who uses only BS and good common sense still has failed to lose but once in the past 8 or 10 trips. BTW, my handle is ASLAN, not Asian. It's actually my dog's name. LOL