Single Deck Card Counting Opportunity

A

argh

Member
#1
#1
At my university there is a weekly 100$ buyin poker game. They give out free beer/food and rides home to players but charge a rake on the game. They also are willing to deal blackjack to players that are interested.

The blackjack game is single deck and would be just me against the dealer. Minimum bet 5$ and i would be willing to bet up to 50$ a hand. What kind of profit could I expect to make from the game, how big a bankroll do I need, and what counting system should i use?
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
More Info

Argh,

For the advantage players to help you, you'll first need to tell them what the table rules will be and what the penatration will be.

Since you ask which "counting system" to use, the presumption is that either you haven't practiced one, or you know all of them and just don't know which one to employ.

I asssume that you already know Basic Strategy for single-deck games?
 
A

argh

Member
#3
#3
I am familiar with basic strategy, and know the Hi Opt I and hi-lo strategies. I would be very comfortble using them in this game since i only have to worry about my and the dealers hands but do not think i could count correctly in an actual casino where the deal would be much faster.

Rules:

No surrender, Double anything, double after splits. Haven't seen it dealt in a while but im pretty sure 3/4 deck penetration. And i think black jacks pay 3/2.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
argh said:
I am familiar with basic strategy, and know the Hi Opt I and hi-lo strategies. I would be very comfortble using them in this game since i only have to worry about my and the dealers hands but do not think i could count correctly in an actual casino where the deal would be much faster.

Rules:

No surrender, Double anything, double after splits. Haven't seen it dealt in a while but im pretty sure 3/4 deck penetration. And i think black jacks pay 3/2.
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I'll stand "correction" here since I'm not by any means an expert at counting. I'd say that which ever system you make the fewest errors using would be the best one for you to use. It is my understanding that errors in counting can cost you more than you will gain by using the systems over flat betting and basic strategy. So, have the counting method of your choice down pretty cold before betting on it.
 
A

argh

Member
#5
#5
Do I only need to know how to count or do I also need to know Indices?

Right now I am completely comfortable counting my way through a deck that I'm dealing through, but I don't have any knowledge of the indices.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Disclaimer

Again, I defer to the real counters, however:

I would think you'd at least want to learn the index numbers for the common situations such as stiffs, insurance, and maybe double downs. Possibly hitting on 12 against 2's and 3's, etc.
 
N

neemo6

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
At least learn what is known as the illustrious 18 indices. If you have Profesional Blackjack by Stanford Wong youre all set, if not do a search im sure there is info on this site about it.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Canceler said:
Do they charge the rake on the blackjack? If so, that would need to be factored in.
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Oh lordy! Do they do that anywhere other than Oklahoma? I've sworn COMPLETELY off of that game! Ironically however, that game is the only one I've been able to hold my own against for the past couple of months! Go figure!
 
A

argh

Member
#11
#11
zengrifter said:
... we will need to know how much BR you can risk with the $5+ bet size, as well as the penetration. zg

I-18
http://cardcounter.com/indices/-11111100-1.htm (Archive copy)
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My bankroll is 15 000$, but I'd probably only be bringing 500$ with me. I figure if its a positive expectation, I can handle losing the whole 500$ if I go on a complete unlucky streak, and if anything that would make it more likely for them to spread blackjack for me whenever i wanted. I also think knowing indices would help me get more action since the dealer knows BS cold so if im not following it, he'll think im a sucker.

I figure 80% of the deck will be played before each shuffle
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#12
#12
argh said:
My bankroll is 15 000$, but I'd probably only be bringing 500$ with me.
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OK, learn the indices - REMEMBER you must divide the running count by the fraction of remaining deck to get the true-count for the indices, here:

1D TC

1D remaining - RC = TC
3/4D remaining - RC x 1.5 = TC
1/2D remaining - RC x 2 = TC
1/3D remaining - RC x 3 = TC
1/4D remaining - RC x 4 = TC

FIRST TIME OUT-
BETTING (TC) -
Take $1000, not $500

0 or lower - bet $5 (even bet $0 when you can get away with it.)
+1 - bet $10
+2 - bet $15
+3 - bet $25
+5 - bet 2-hands of $25 or 1-hand of $35
+7 - bet 2-hands of $35 or 1-hand of $50
 
A

argh

Member
#13
#13
zengrifter said:
OK, learn the indices - REMEMBER you must divide the running count by the fraction of remaining deck to get the true-count for the indices, here:

1D TC

1D remaining - RC = TC
3/4D remaining - RC x 1.5 = TC
1/2D remaining - RC x 2 = TC
1/3D remaining - RC x 3 = TC
1/4D remaining - RC x 4 = TC

FIRST TIME OUT-
BETTING (TC) -
Take $1000, not $500

0 or lower - bet $5 (even bet $0 when you can get away with it.)
+1 - bet $10
+2 - bet $15
+3 - bet $25
+5 - bet 2-hands of $25 or 1-hand of $35
+7 - bet 2-hands of $35 or 1-hand of $50
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yeah if the count gets negative i can just tell them i want a shuffle cause I'm feeling unlucky. That will especially true if I'm using indices, since they know basic strategy and will think im a sucker for not following it.

How do I read the Indice chart?

also, according to wizardofodds.com their game already has a +0.1% advantage to the player due to the rules they have. I'm going to see if they will allow 5 card charlies which would give me an extra couple points off the bat.
 
T

techster

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
What university

I'm curious what university you attend that provides such entertainment for its students!? I wish I had known about it when I was picking a college years ago.
 
E

E-town-guy

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
argh said:
How do I read the Indice chart?

QUOTE]

I don't know the indices for your situation but here's an example which should help:

Insurance +3
16 v 9 +5
16 v 10 +1

12 v 2 +4
12 v 3 +2

9 v 2 +1
10 v A +4

So basically take insurance when the TC is 3 or greater, stand on 16 when the count is greater than 5 or 1 for dealers 9 or 10 respectively. Hit 12 vs 2 when the count is 4 or greater and hit 12 vs. 3 when the count is 2 or greater. Double 9 vs. 2 when the count is 1 or greater and 10vsA when the count is 4 or greater.

In general indices tell you when to do the opposite of what you'd normally do with basic strategy at a given count.

Hope that helps.
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A

argh

Member
#16
#16
techster said:
I'm curious what university you attend that provides such entertainment for its students!? I wish I had known about it when I was picking a college years ago.
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The game isnt run by the school, its run by some guys with a bunch of cash. They make a ton of money off it too, like 2-300 a night so i thought it would be good to take back some of the money they've been raking from the poker game.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
I can barely remember my college days. I do remember "dorm games" in which we would yank a mattress off a bed and use it as a table for nickel, dime fifteen games of 7-stud and hi-lo Chicago.
 
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