Sonny's Shuffle Tracking!

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#3
Saw it. Read through it. Didn't have time to digest it. But I have saved it and will be giving it attention. I just can't right now....new Grand Baby is shuffling my priorities for the present!
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#4
these are great articles. i read them a while back. they are what inspired me to think, hey i might actually be able to do this!
i wish Sonny would write another series about the actual observation techniques of how a shuffle tracker gets a handle on a slug as he follows it through the various grabs, riffles, strips and the plugging of the cut off cards into the discards.
i'm just starting out trying to learn ST. i believe it holds a solution to one of my biggest gripes with regards to ap counting of shoes. because of my limited bankroll i've got to wong out a lot and the joints i play are not very good for wonging in. so what i'm faced with is having to enter a lot of tables from the get go never knowing if the shoe is going to afford an advantageous count or is it going to be one that just drains my stake. it's occured to me that one could use ST as a form of wonging in that would not be so obvious as 'traditional' wonging in. one could stand back and count down a shoe determining a good plug and then one could tell if the next shoe was likely to be worth playing or not.
well i've been observing the shuffles that the joints i frequent use. my problem for now is getting a handle on following the slugs through the shuffle and determining where they end up once the shuffling and cutting is over.
best regards,
mr fr0g
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
I read them,with great interest. But I need to work on my counting and finish polishing my BS before entering the advance phases. My thanks for those threads and all the help I've gotten so far.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#9
zengrifter said:
Cut-Off Tracking is relatively easy. zg
Can you explain what cut-off tracking is/how to do it? I read about it in Blackjack attack but I didn't understand it very well since I had passed over most of the shuffle tracking pages.
 

Cass

Well-Known Member
#11
zengrifter said:
See ZG Interview page 12. You may paste the page-12 CUT-OFF tracking data in this thread for further discussion. zg
I like the "cut card game" Up to 51% advantage. Unfortunately i cant use it because i dont have a team. This is probably the same thing you aer referrign to.
 
#12
Cass said:
I like the "cut card game" Up to 51% advantage. Unfortunately i cant use it because i dont have a team. This is probably the same thing you aer referrign to.
NO, its not. cut-off tracking is the simplest form of shuffle tracking. zg
 
#13
I think that's different

Cass said:
I like the "cut card game" Up to 51% advantage. Unfortunately i cant use it because i dont have a team. This is probably the same thing you aer referrign to.
By the cut-card game I think you may be referring to a certain illegal technique. I'm not putting it down, as I have used it myself and a team is not necessary, although partners at the table make it much more effective and multiply the number of dealers you can use it with. ZG knows exactly what technique I mean.
 

Cass

Well-Known Member
#14
Automatic Monkey said:
By the cut-card game I think you may be referring to a certain illegal technique. I'm not putting it down, as I have used it myself and a team is not necessary, although partners at the table make it much more effective and multiply the number of dealers you can use it with. ZG knows exactly what technique I mean.
If you ever visit hitorstand.net i'm referring to technique that "bojack1" outlined. I'm pretty sure it is the same thing. It could be Illegal i guess? A team would be needed to have control of the entire table in order to "steer" a bust card....
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#15
zengrifter said:
See ZG Interview page 12. You may paste the page-12 CUT-OFF tracking data in this thread for further discussion. zg
Here is an excert from the interview.

zengrifter said:
Cut-off tracking in shoe games is relatively easy to do. The hard part is finding games with shuffle procedures that leave the cut-offs - the undealt cards left behind the shuffle card - in a relative ‘cohesion-dilute’ and exploitable as such. Such games are few and far between, but they are out
there, once you know what to look for. Last year I noticed close to a dozen or so games between Southern California and Southern Nevada that were exploitable with variants of the relatively simple cut-off tracking method.
So, what’s the gist of it? Once you know how to recognize a shuffle that leaves the cut-offs in a proximate but diluted cohesiveness, all that is required is to secure the cut card, and proceed to cut those cards to either
the top or the bottom of the post-shuffled stack - then you make a simple count conversion - the result being that an otherwise mediocre six or eight deck game with poor penetration is instantly transformed into a three or five deck game with 90% penetration and a starting plus count twothirds of the time!
I have a couple of questions here. First, what type of shuffles are good for cut-off tracking, and how do you know what to look for to find them.

How do you cut the cards to the top? Do you just place the cut card right in front of the "cut offs"? And when the "cutoffs" have a negative count is that when you would cut them to the back of the shoe? Would you do that by placing the cut card directly behind the "cutoffs"?

And finally, how do you make the correct count conversion?
 
#16
Cass said:
If you ever visit hitorstand.net i'm referring to technique that "bojack1" outlined. I'm pretty sure it is the same thing. It could be Illegal i guess? A team would be needed to have control of the entire table in order to "steer" a bust card....
No that's not the Illegal Technique. The Illegal Technique involves manipulating the cut card so you can see the card you are going to get on the first round. When I do it, I pretend I have a disabled hand (which I actually do, but not that bad) as soon as I walk into the casino so if they notice me having "difficulty" with the cut card, it looks innocent. It's probably arrestable, so I wouldn't do it for more than one big bet in one place.

If you have a team at the table, it increases the probability one of you will get the cut card linearly and also increases the probability one of you will be able to see the target card. All you need are two signals, one for a 10 and one for an Ace.
 

E-town-guy

Well-Known Member
#18
Automatic Monkey said:
No that's not the Illegal Technique. The Illegal Technique involves manipulating the cut card so you can see the card you are going to get on the first round. When I do it, I pretend I have a disabled hand (which I actually do, but not that bad) as soon as I walk into the casino so if they notice me having "difficulty" with the cut card, it looks innocent. It's probably arrestable, so I wouldn't do it for more than one big bet in one place.

When you put the cut card in I don't understand how you get to see the card behind the cut card i.e. the card about to become the first card out of the deck. And don't they burn the first card out of the deck anyway? I must be confused.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#19
E-town-guy said:
When you put the cut card in I don't understand how you get to see the card behind the cut card i.e. the card about to become the first card out of the deck. And don't they burn the first card out of the deck anyway? I must be confused.
Maybe that is why they burn the first card...
 
#20
E-town-guy said:
When you put the cut card in I don't understand how you get to see the card behind the cut card i.e. the card about to become the first card out of the deck. And don't they burn the first card out of the deck anyway? I must be confused.
Its the card in front of the cut-card, and the cut card is inserted EXACTLY a specific known number of cards from the end. zg
 
Top