Testing positive for EV

bj bob · Jun 3, 2006

Hey guys, Could you help me out with this one? Going to Reno in a few weeks and want to set up a SIMPLE team strategy with my son. Here's the setup: Want to stick with 1D,2D Reno rules,i.e. H17,D10,NDAS,70% pen,No sur. We have a simple +- signal set up. I,m playing my usual way1-4 spread 2x3U. He's going 1U until he gets +signal(playing BS BTW) then up to 2. I don't want to make him nervious w/heat etc.He will also "copy cat" my insurance bets. Just want to know if,put together, we can expect a pos. EV for 5 day visit. Any thoughts?

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
Hey guys, Could you help me out with this one? Going to Reno in a few weeks and want to set up a SIMPLE team strategy with my son. Here's the setup: Want to stick with 1D,2D Reno rules,i.e. H17,D10,NDAS,70% pen,No sur. We have a simple +- signal set up. I,m playing my usual way1-4 spread 2x3U. He's going 1U until he gets +signal(playing BS BTW) then up to 2. I don't want to make him nervious w/heat etc.He will also "copy cat" my insurance bets. Just want to know if,put together, we can expect a pos. EV for 5 day visit. Any thoughts?

First of all Reno is for 1D play only - 1D games are good there and 2D games are BAD there. If you are playing same table AND same BR your EV will be reduced for two reasons: 1) Adding an extra player to the game reduces your #hands and overall pene; and 2) You are going from a spread of 1-4 down to a spread of 2x1 to 2x3 (average between his topBet and yours).

If the kid's BR is totally seperate, then he's still degrading your pene.

Oneway that WOULD increase your EV is if ONLY ONE of you sits down and the other stands behind - father & son - and you kibitz between hands and through a signal, the one standing throws his 4u on top of the other's 2u bet at the appropriate moment - thus achieving a 1-6 spread.

BTW, this is not an appropriate post for "Advanced Strategies" forum! zg

bj bob · Jun 3, 2006

So,as stated

My original setup would result in a neg.EV? Just wondering about how much.Last time I was there (last fall) I found goood 2D games at the Legacy. Took them for about 1K 4 days. Anyway, Just wanted to break Jr. in without all the "extra" worries...learning curve to start. This 2-man team was designed to hit an empty or 1 player table anyway.And BTW ,on what forum should team play be adressed ?

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
My original setup would result in a neg.EV? Just wondering about how much.Last time I was there (last fall) I found goood 2D games at the Legacy. Took them for about 1K 4 days. Anyway, Just wanted to break Jr. in without all the "extra" worries...learning curve to start. This 2-man team was designed to hit an empty or 1 player table anyway.And BTW ,on what forum should team play be adressed ?

The legacy has good pene with mediocre rules... AND its the best 2D in North Nevada. No, would not result in negEV, but with reduced EV. Re-read my post and consider that you guys take turns who sits and who stands. zg

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
Just wanted to break Jr. in without all the "extra" worries...learning curve to start.

"Learning to count"?? I'll bet he couldn't even pass a BS test! zg

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
And BTW ,on what forum should team play be adressed ?

"Team play"? This isn't "team play", this is a father-son camping trip! "Stalking the wild BJ!" zg

Brutus · Jun 3, 2006

Sounds like Marlin Perkins sending Jim in to net the wild blackjack.

:joker:

TENNBEAR · Jun 3, 2006

Team Play

bj bob said:
Hey guys, Could you help me out with this one? Going to Reno in a few weeks and want to set up a SIMPLE team strategy with my son. Here's the setup: Want to stick with 1D,2D Reno rules,i.e. H17,D10,NDAS,70% pen,No sur. We have a simple +- signal set up. I,m playing my usual way1-4 spread 2x3U. He's going 1U until he gets +signal(playing BS BTW) then up to 2. I don't want to make him nervious w/heat etc.He will also "copy cat" my insurance bets. Just want to know if,put together, we can expect a pos. EV for 5 day visit. Any thoughts?

You can set your son up as a ploppy paying attention to everthing in the casino but the cards being played, so no one would suspect him as a counter. You count the cards and flat bet minimum, and signal to him what to bet allowing a large enough bet spread to cover your action. This works well but you will need to work several casino's to pull it off, you can wear out your welcome at one casino with to much play. I have done this with a friends wife whome is a big breasted blonde 20 years my junior, while she plays the dumb blonde act, we work a 10 to 1 spread and never recieved any heat.

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

TENNBEAR said:
You can set your son up as a ploppy paying attention to everthing in the casino but the cards being played, so no one would suspect him as a counter. You count the cards and flat bet minimum, and signal to him what to bet allowing a large enough bet spread to cover your action. This works well but you will need to work several casino's to pull it off, you can wear out your welcome at one casino with to much play. I have done this with a friends wife whome is a big breasted blonde 20 years my junior, while she plays the dumb blonde act, we work a 10 to 1 spread and never recieved any heat.

Yes, thats viable - called 'gorillaBP' - your son will need to be smooth, not miss all the signals invilving bets/plays, use a 1-7+ spread, drink, and act like an idiot or an a**hole. A little more involved. zg

bj bob · Jun 3, 2006

Gosh, Zg!

Don't scare the poor kid off yet! This will be the first time using BS in a real situation. We won't know the true outcome until the clay hits the felt. I do appreciate your answer that this would be a Pos. EV experience. I'm looking at this right now as how much will a BS player benefit from an AP rather than how much a BS player hurts my EV. As far as not "camping out" at one club, well taken. If it gets too frustating for the both of us I'll just send him off with TENN's busty blonde and hit the green 1D by myself. Like I said, it's a learning curve..one step at a time.

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
Like I said, it's a learning curve..one step at a time.

Don't coddle and spoonfeed the kid - tell him he counts down 1D in 20 seconds or he aint goin! zg

ScottH · Jun 3, 2006

bj bob said:
Don't scare the poor kid off yet! This will be the first time using BS in a real situation. We won't know the true outcome until the clay hits the felt. I do appreciate your answer that this would be a Pos. EV experience. I'm looking at this right now as how much will a BS player benefit from an AP rather than how much a BS player hurts my EV. As far as not "camping out" at one club, well taken. If it gets too frustating for the both of us I'll just send him off with TENN's busty blonde and hit the green 1D by myself. Like I said, it's a learning curve..one step at a time.

How old is this "kid"? I havn't heard of many parents who encourage their kids to gamble! :devil:

ScottH · Jun 3, 2006

zengrifter said:
Don't coddle and spoonfeed the kid - tell him he counts down 1D in 20 seconds or he aint goin! zg

Agreed. It's not that hard to do. All you have to do is put in a little time and effort.

Mikeaber · Jun 3, 2006

ScottH said:
Agreed. It's not that hard to do. All you have to do is put in a little time and effort.

I take my "kids" to Vegas once every year and have a blast with them. I don't take the gambling serious when I go with them....just play ploppie. Some things, you can't measure in terms of money!

Cass · Jun 3, 2006

ScottH said:
How old is this "kid"? I havn't heard of many parents who encourage their kids to gamble! :devil:

My son is six months old and he already knows Basic strategy

zengrifter · Jun 3, 2006

Thats great! He'll be the Tiger Woods of BJ! zg

E-town-guy · Jun 4, 2006

zengrifter said:
Yes, thats viable - called 'gorillaBP' - your son will need to be smooth, not miss all the signals invilving bets/plays, use a 1-7+ spread, drink, and act like an idiot or an a**hole. A little more involved. zg

How would the gorillaBP act work? Sounds like its more profitable to play by yourself rather than one player counting to cover two player's action.

zengrifter · Jun 4, 2006

E-town-guy said:
How would the gorillaBP act work? Sounds like its more profitable to play by yourself rather than one player counting to cover two player's action.

The counter isn't betting, just small bets. The gorilla lays down a great act, maybe drunk and plays a BIG spread. zg

bj bob · Jun 4, 2006

Where's your sensitivity?

zengrifter said:
Don't coddle and spoonfeed the kid - tell him he counts down 1D in 20 seconds or he aint goin! zg

I think this approach would be rather harsh for such a young "child" He's not quite yet 24 and still needs a loving hand to direct him to "be in touch" with himself, the dealer and especially to "feel" the pit bosses pain. Just like one should "feel" the deck for streaks (certainly you've read that in other posts).
What would you have a concerned parent such as myself to do? Send him off for the summer to the "Der Zgen Kinder Kamp" with Cass's and Mike's kids to be thouroughly indoctrinated in cold hard mathematics blindly repeating soft doubles indexes until it's second nature?...Do I want him growing up in such a world???....You bet ya!!! When can a sign him up and how much for the tuition? Just think, in less than 3 mos. he'll bootstep right up to the pit, sit right down and give the pitboss a big wide grin along with some graphic digital gesture...Yeah, why not?

ScottH · Jun 4, 2006

bj bob said:
I think this approach would be rather harsh for such a young "child" He's not quite yet 24 and still needs a loving hand to direct him to "be in touch" with himself, the dealer and especially to "feel" the pit bosses pain. Just like one should "feel" the deck for streaks (certainly you've read that in other posts).
What would you have a concerned parent such as myself to do? Send him off for the summer to the "Der Zgen Kinder Kamp" with Cass's and Mike's kids to be thouroughly indoctrinated in cold hard mathematics blindly repeating soft doubles indexes until it's second nature?...Do I want him growing up in such a world???....You bet ya!!! When can a sign him up and how much for the tuition? Just think, in less than 3 mos. he'll bootstep right up to the pit, sit right down and give the pitboss a big wide grin along with some graphic digital gesture...Yeah, why not?

If he is 24, he definitely does NOT need a loving hand to direct him! He's counting down a deck in 20 seconds or less or he ain't goin'! :whip:

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