Turning Stone - Double Deck

B

Buzzer

Member
I haven't seen much posted about Turning Stone's double deck games. Up until last year you were able to play with $100 minimums. In the spring of 2007 they upped the minimum to $200. This was enough for me to stop despite being well ahead in the game.

Now they have $50 minimums with four tables available (previously there were only two double deck tables). On the $50 table cards are dealt face up, face down on the $200 tables. Table max is generally 10 times the minimum.

They've also added a VIP lounge with limits at $500-$5000.

Rules remain the same, penetration on the $50 tables is set by a notch in the discard tray. It's set to cut off one deck.

For anyone not familiar with old rules:

No DAS
No Resplits
Dealer s17
Double any 2 cards (exept after split)

Certainly not a Vegas quality game, but I find it much better that the 6 & 8 deck games out there. With airfare increases it looks even more attractive.
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
Buzzer said:
I haven't seen much posted about Turning Stone's double deck games. Up until last year you were able to play with $100 minimums. In the spring of 2007 they upped the minimum to $200. This was enough for me to stop despite being well ahead in the game.

Now they have $50 minimums with four tables available (previously there were only two double deck tables). On the $50 table cards are dealt face up, face down on the $200 tables. Table max is generally 10 times the minimum.

They've also added a VIP lounge with limits at $500-$5000.

Rules remain the same, penetration on the $50 tables is set by a notch in the discard tray. It's set to cut off one deck.

For anyone not familiar with old rules:

No DAS
No Resplits
Dealer s17
Double any 2 cards (exept after split)

Certainly not a Vegas quality game, but I find it much better that the 6 & 8 deck games out there. With airfare increases it looks even more attractive.
Click to expand...
Buzzer,

Thanks for the info, but in all honesty I would never play such a game. I have an aversion to being made a sucker by the casino.

There are DD that are vastly superior to that game and you can play them with some travel.

Save up and take some "BJ Sojourns".

CP
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Buzzer said:
I haven't seen much posted about Turning Stone's double deck games. Up until last year you were able to play with $100 minimums. In the spring of 2007 they upped the minimum to $200. This was enough for me to stop despite being well ahead in the game.

Now they have $50 minimums with four tables available (previously there were only two double deck tables). On the $50 table cards are dealt face up, face down on the $200 tables. Table max is generally 10 times the minimum.

They've also added a VIP lounge with limits at $500-$5000.

Rules remain the same, penetration on the $50 tables is set by a notch in the discard tray. It's set to cut off one deck.

For anyone not familiar with old rules:

No DAS
No Resplits
Dealer s17
Double any 2 cards (exept after split)

Certainly not a Vegas quality game, but I find it much better that the 6 & 8 deck games out there. With airfare increases it looks even more attractive.
Click to expand...

Airfare would have to triple before that game got very attractive.
 
B

Buzzer

Member
Vegas or not to Vegas

My post about TS double deck was meant to be informational, not an endorsement of the game.

I much prefer Vegas rules, but you waste a day of travel getting there and back from the east coast. If I factor in the loss of work during travel ($640) the airfare ($380) and the car rental for 5 days ($90) I have a cost of $1,110.00 to overcome before the trip makes any sense. I left off room and food assuming these would be comped at either location.

I can work a full day, and get in a few hours of play at Turning Stone which has paid me fairly well. Over the past five years I've netted a little over $45,000 ($38,000 in the last two years playing the double deck games).

Using the Wiazrd of Odds House Edge Calculator I show this game being very slightly better than anything in CT or NJ.

The House Edge Calculator has some shortcomings, as does any calculator. One thing it does not reflect is player error. I'm an old fart, and I lose count frequently. In double deck the price for this is much lower as the shu is shorter and the count resets at each shuffle. Riding through a 6 or 8 deck shu after losing count seems far costlier.

I haven't seen any other east coast casinos offering any double deck at all.

Earnings have averaged about $500 per trip. Not quitting my day job, but it certainly doesn't seem like a waste of time since I enjoy playing anyway.

My last Vegas trip netted me about $250.00 per day after expenses. In fairness, though, I dropped $2,000 rather quickly (about 30 minutes) then lowered my play level until I recovered most of it. This cut into my earnings from the trip. Had my playing level remained constant, and the win percentage been the same, I would have netted around $1,000 per day making it a much better return.

Give me a week off and a big bankroll, you'll catch me at a high altitude heading west.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
If thats your local casino,it's not a bad game. For me,in NYC,TS doesn't make a whole lot of sense.Now if they ever revert back to the days of dealers handchecking for BJs and warping the tens,it'll be a different story.
 
B

Buzzer

Member
Shu Games

I agree, shu games are bad. They're all 8 deck - enough said.

Note: There is one 6 deck table in high limit area. Minimum bet is $100, you can DAS. I believe the house advantage is still higher than on the double deck games.
 
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SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
TS 8D Pen

Hey, I went to turning stone last night and played at the 8D games and although I am still new to card counting (2nd session ever), but as a card magician I at least know how much 1 deck is and it appeared to me that there were 2 decks cut off. There is a notch to show the cut point and all the dealers I played with used it. I may be wrong here, but isn't that quite playable with S17 DAS DOA?

Edit: I also saw a few ploppy's (I think im using that right) that were splitting tens v 8. Im not sure how desireable these guys are, but useful if you had the chance to split 10s vs 5 at a TC of 5 or something?
 
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creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
Sleight

SleightOfHand said:
Hey, I went to turning stone last night and played at the 8D games and although I am still new to card counting (2nd session ever), but as a card magician I at least know how much 1 deck is and it appeared to me that there were 2 decks cut off. There is a notch to show the cut point and all the dealers I played with used it. I may be wrong here, but isn't that quite playable with S17 DAS DOA?

Edit: I also saw a few ploppy's (I think im using that right) that were splitting tens v 8. Im not sure how desireable these guys are, but useful if you had the chance to split 10s vs 5 at a TC of 5 or something?
Click to expand...
8 deck is an abomination, play it only if you want to have a social event. No it is not beatable unless you are "King Wong".;)

Forgetaboutit:(

CP
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but from everything I have read, I always thought that 8 deck was at least playable. Just that you need a larger bet spread.

Mebe because I am still playing small (5-60) the pit bosses wont really notice my large bet spread, but are you sure that its no gud? lol.
 
B

Buzzer

Member
Cut off - Double Deck Update

SleightOfHand said:
Hey, I went to turning stone last night and played at the 8D games and although I am still new to card counting (2nd session ever), but as a card magician I at least know how much 1 deck is and it appeared to me that there were 2 decks cut off. There is a notch to show the cut point and all the dealers I played with used it. I may be wrong here, but isn't that quite playable with S17 DAS DOA?

Edit: I also saw a few ploppy's (I think im using that right) that were splitting tens v 8. Im not sure how desireable these guys are, but useful if you had the chance to split 10s vs 5 at a TC of 5 or something?
Click to expand...
Cut off in double deck can't be 2 decks or the game is unplayable (no cards left to deal!). The dealer would have to be a magician too.

Update - I found out there's a $15 double deck game there as well. There were always a number of players at the table. This is probably the best low stakes table in the casino. Not a great game, but better than the 8 deck.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
I went to TS a few days ago and here is the info for the 8D. There are 2 notches set at 2 and 2.5 decks (I believe). Dealers usually place them at the 2.5 mark but saw a few at 2 and in between. Rules are S17, DAS, DOA.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
H e a t !

The game is playable but they monitor the games and if you play well you can expect to be 86'd.

I certainly was.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
The game is playable but they monitor the games and if you play well you can expect to be 86'd.

I certainly was.
Click to expand...
What lvl were you playing? I was red chipping with backcounting (+1) + wonging out (-1) like crazy and was getting no heat whatsoever. But then again I had a small (1-5) spread so that may explain part of it.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
The game you describe has an e.v. that may be less than minimum wage.

Why waste your time ?

i was referring to the 2 deckers. I spread from $100 to $500.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
The game you describe has an e.v. that may be less than minimum wage.

Why waste your time ?

i was referring to the 2 deckers. I spread from $100 to $500.
Click to expand...
Haha I know. I'm still relatively new to counting, and as TS is the closest casino, it was more of a practice kind of thing. Its about 1.5 units/hr.
 
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