Playing SD good rules I was going to play how I usually play and one of my friends would count cards also, but she would only depth charge. I know my friend has barely an advantage doing this. I know two counters at table varying their bets is really obvious, but if one player was only depth charging would this attract any attention? Would it actually help a little with camouflage?
Two counters
- Thread starter avs21
- Start date
My friend would just be flat betting the whole time. I was still expecting heat just wasn't sure if it would buy me a little bit more time. So you think playing this way I will receive more heat?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Oh, I thought she was going to be depth charging. If she is flat betting then it won’t bring you any more heat. It might reduce your heat a little bit if the pit is smart, but I wouldn’t count on that. Unless they don’t perceive you as a threat (or your friend is REALLY hot) they are going to get rid of any counters they find, even if their partner is paying the rent on their seat.
-Sonny-
Automatic Monkey
Banned
One advantage of having two counters would be that you can play two hands on the same bankroll without having to double the table min per hand, which is something most casinos make you do if you want to play two hands yourself. You'll have to make sure no one else is at the table, for maximum benefit.
You can also have her do an insurance-only count for perfect insurance data, which will make you more money than having her count and flat-bet. Or you can find a table with a playable sidebet and have her count for that. If she's doing the insurance count, make sure she is seated to your right and you flash her your cards as soon as you receive them.
You can also have her do an insurance-only count for perfect insurance data, which will make you more money than having her count and flat-bet. Or you can find a table with a playable sidebet and have her count for that. If she's doing the insurance count, make sure she is seated to your right and you flash her your cards as soon as you receive them.
Okay, I don't get this. I thought depth charging did involve flat betting, with the advantage coming from index plays. What am I not understanding here?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Depth charging involves raising your bet after every hand regardless of the count. Start with a minimum bet at the shuffle and either chip-up or double-up after each hand. You can get a small advantage because your bets are getting bigger as your playing accuracy increases deeper in the deck (assuming you use a count with a high PE and lots of indices). You also get the benefit of cover because you look like a typical progression player or gambler who likes to chip-up.
-Sonny-
I know the tag numbers for the insurance count, but do you know at what count to take insurance with the system?
Thank you
Sonny
Well-Known Member
From Qfit’s website:
“A perfect side count for Insurance purposes would count Tens as -9 and all other cards as -4 [+4??]. But, I know of no one that uses this. The method used by CV is to use an unbalanced count found in the 1981 version of Wong's Professional Blackjack. Here, Tens are counted as -2 and all other cards as +1. Insure if the count is greater than four times the number of decks. The Ten count can also be used for the Bust Out bet if you can find that rule anywhere.”
http://www.qfit.com/blackjack-side-counts.htm
-Sonny-
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Not sure. There are 3 different versions of it that I know of. One is the 9/4 balanced one, where the 10-value cards are -9 and everything else is +4. There's the unbalanced insurance count where 10's are -2 and everything else is +1. And there's a practical balanced insurance count where 10's are -2, aces are neutral and everything else is +1. For SD and an inexperienced counter probably the unbalanced version is the best.
I'm at work and don't have my simulator handy, but I can run it when I get home and find out what the ideal insurance point with that count is and it's advantage, unless somebody beats me to it.
(P.S. looks like Sonny beat me to it!)
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The 1,-2 count raises the IC to 99.9%. I am not sure how much it adds to the EV.
Actually the 1, -2 tags give a 100% IC if a perfect count is kept. Initial RC=-4 * (number of decks). When RC=0, the proportion of tens = 1/3 and insurance is an even proposition. When RC is positive, insurance is a favorable proposition. I don't know how much it would add to EV. You'd need to know how often each positive count occurred with an ace up for that. If a perfect count was kept, there would never be a negative expectation insurance bet, though.
k_c
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
Also dont forget as long as all non-facecards are of the same value your IC will always be 1.00
If your gonna go with a unbalanced one. Why not go with
111111111-1 I dont mean to stir the pot. But the actual count may be a little easier. But the unbalanced aspect of it may not be.
What im not sure is if you would insure +5 or 0 . I guess thats where the irc comes in. Just a thought.
zengrifter
Banned
No, its not worth the effort - if both can count they belong at separate tables. zgEV folks, EV!!
Is this even worth the trouble? Nobody has convinced me yet. Nobody even seems to have a ballpark EV gain in mind.
I don't think so since the ratio of remaining non-10's to remaining 10's must be at least 2-1 to make it an even bet, as k_c pointed out.
I don't think ur proposed count would insure that at any constant RC.
As far as EV goes, it's easily calculated for any particular hand given +RC in the +1, -2 system since u r always paid 2-1.
How much will be bet at the time using a counting system with less than a 1.0IC is a little more difficult to calculate.
But, say the first 24 cards in a 6D game are non-10's. The insurance bet is now even, again, as k_c pointed out. (96 10's divided by 192 non-10's, 288 total cards.)
So at RC +25 the ratio becomes 33.45%, giving an EV of 0.3484% of amount
bet. At RC+26, 0.7% etc.