What happened to me?

J

jackpine

Member
#1
#1
I am new to the game. I sat down, picked up 200 in chips and begin to play. I was doing very well through about 10 shoes, up about twice what I started with. A guy sits next to me, my right, and begins to place bets on two seats. He was getting great cards and he was soon up 800 or so from what I could tell. Everyone left but me, so he slides over and starts betting on three places. My winning ways stopped and I began getting horrible cards while he was doubling, splitting and getting blackjacks on what seemed like every deal. He was not using good basic strategy from what I could see, standing on a hard 12 when the dealer showed a face card and such.

I know I should have gotten up and left, but why do you think this guy was so successful?
 
U

UncrownedKing

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Were you counting? Were you sitting at a table using CSM? If you were sitting at a CSM, then the order of the cards could've been in tact. When the ploppy sat down, he was getting the cycle of good cards in your place. Just maybe.
 
J

jackpine

Member
#3
#3
UncrownedKing said:
Were you counting? Were you sitting at a table using CSM? If you were sitting at a CSM, then the order of the cards could've been in tact. When the ploppy sat down, he was getting the cycle of good cards in your place. Just maybe.
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I am new to the sport, what is CSM? I was just curious as to what the plopper was doing and why it worked so well for him. I am not a confident card counter, but I try to keep track of what has come out of the deck. What happened was he took over the table and we all lost. I was stupid enough to remain there and lose more!

I just looked up csm, and no the dealer was shuffling at the end of the deck, penetration was 5 decks.
 
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U

UncrownedKing

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Sorry for the terminology. It was just luck/variance. It had nothing to do with you or the ploppy, it was just the way the cards were. Was he standing behind you before he sat down? He could have been backcounting and wonged-in at a high count. If not then it was just the way the cards fell. If you aren't counting then you should be expecting to lose anyways.
 
J

jackpine

Member
#5
#5
UncrownedKing said:
Sorry for the terminology. It was just luck/variance. It had nothing to do with you or the ploppy, it was just the way the cards were. Was he standing behind you before he sat down? He could have been backcounting and wonged-in at a high count. If not then it was just the way the cards fell. If you aren't counting then you should be expecting to lose anyways.
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I am not good enough to count yet, especially with a bunch of players at a table. The guy did sit next to me for the remainder of the shoe before he bought in. He was obviously experienced, knew the dealers by first name, but played an odd game that made no sense to me.
 
takinfromindians97

takinfromindians97

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Did he cut when the dealer shuffled

Maybe he was a shuffle tracker and cut to a nice little pack of 10s & Aces. He possibly was steering a card when he was making funny plays. Alot of times youll hit a hand that you wouldnt hit or stand when you wouldnt normally. You do this to take cards to get to the one you want and put it right where you want it to be, if the card you are steering is 3 cards away and you have two 17s before the dealers hand and your trying to steer her the 10 then you would hit your 17s to eat up cards and send the 10 to the dealer. Then hopefully the 10 you sent to her will bust her hand.
Sorry all you guys for the crude steering explanation. lol
 
J

jackpine

Member
#7
#7
takinfromindians97 said:
Maybe he was a shuffle tracker and cut to a nice little pack of 10s & Aces. He possibly was steering a card when he was making funny plays. Alot of times youll hit a hand that you wouldnt hit or stand when you wouldnt normally. You do this to take cards to get to the one you want and put it right where you want it to be, if the card you are steering is 3 cards away and you have two 17s before the dealers hand and your trying to steer her the 10 then you would hit your 17s to eat up cards and send the 10 to the dealer. Then hopefully the 10 you sent to her will bust her hand.
Sorry all you guys for the crude steering explanation. lol
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Man, if he can do that, more power to him. One thing I noticed is that when the dealer had to shuffle, this guy dissapeared for 5 minutes, often missing the first hand out of the deck before he got back.
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
jackpine said:
Man, if he can do that, more power to him. One thing I noticed is that when the dealer had to shuffle, this guy dissapeared for 5 minutes, often missing the first hand out of the deck before he got back.
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That pretty well rules out shuffle tracking and steering. It's possible the cards were marked (perhaps inadvertently) but he was probably just lucky. It happens.
 
J

jackpine

Member
#9
#9
johndoe said:
That pretty well rules out shuffle tracking and steering. It's possible the cards were marked (perhaps inadvertently) but he was probably just lucky. It happens.
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The more I think about it, the more I think he was using me. I was playing BS at third, he had three bets going at a time. All the cards went his way and he was counting on me to bust the dealer.
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
jackpine said:
The more I think about it, the more I think he was using me. I was playing BS at third, he had three bets going at a time. All the cards went his way and he was counting on me to bust the dealer.
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Nope, he wasn't using you at all. There was nothing you could have done to influence the dealer's busting. It was just dumb luck, stop worrying about it.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
jackpine said:
The more I think about it, the more I think he was using me. I was playing BS at third, he had three bets going at a time. All the cards went his way and he was counting on me to bust the dealer.
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It doesn't work that way... Another player's hit or stand choice has NOTHING to do with your results, or vice versa. Sometimes it seems to help. Other times it makes things worse, but they balance ou.
 
takinfromindians97

takinfromindians97

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
21forme is correct what you do has no direct influence on weather or not he wins, that is superstition and only seems as though it was because of you after the fact when you see the outcome. If he was leaving the table he was not steering or shuffle tracking. It seems to me that this guy was lucky sometimes people win in the casinos for no good reason at all. But i recomend getting thoughts like he was using you to bust the dealer and other superstitious thoughts out of your head, thoughts and gut feelings are a good way to lose alot of money. Blackjack is a game of cold hard numbers and should be played according to the numbers and facts nothing more then that.
 
non-self-weighter

non-self-weighter

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
jackpine said:
I know I should have gotten up and left, but why do you think this guy was so successful?
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What happened to you and him is almost entirely due to variance - a measure of the amount of "luck" or "bad luck" that may occur over n sample size. 10 shoes is an incredibly small sample size, so the results were nearly 100% random.
 
J

jackpine

Member
#14
#14
Ok, sound advice. I will chalk it up to inexperience and keep playing the basic strategy. I know I made a few mistakes, especially when others at the table questioned my play. I have a lot to learn.
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
jackpine said:
Ok, sound advice. I will chalk it up to inexperience and keep playing the basic strategy. I know I made a few mistakes, especially when others at the table questioned my play. I have a lot to learn.
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Here's something else you can learn: More times than not, people questioning your play decisions are wrong themselves. I never make BS errors and people holler all the time about my 'dumb' plays. It's pretty common. Use a (free) basic strategy trainer to practice with.
 
M

Martin Gayle

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
jackpine said:
The more I think about it, the more I think he was using me. I was playing BS at third, he had three bets going at a time. All the cards went his way and he was counting on me to bust the dealer.
Click to expand...

How is it he is a ploppy and you are not?
 
J

jackpine

Member
#17
#17
Everybody has to be a ploppy sometime right? You might have to explain to me what a ploppy is, but I am sure I have been one.

I am just starting out. What books should I read? I watched the Andy Bloch DVD about a dozen times so far. Not ready to run a count yet, still working on strategy.
 
I

InPlay

Banned
#18
#18
jackpine said:
I am new to the game. I sat down, picked up 200 in chips and begin to play. I was doing very well through about 10 shoes, up about twice what I started with. A guy sits next to me, my right, and begins to place bets on two seats. He was getting great cards and he was soon up 800 or so from what I could tell. Everyone left but me, so he slides over and starts betting on three places. My winning ways stopped and I began getting horrible cards while he was doubling, splitting and getting blackjacks on what seemed like every deal. He was not using good basic strategy from what I could see, standing on a hard 12 when the dealer showed a face card and such.

I know I should have gotten up and left, but why do you think this guy was so successful?
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard of the scared flow of the cards ? That person disturibed the flow of the cards.
 
W

winr_winr_chicken_dinner!

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
Card Magnet

His card magnet was stronger. You need to visit your player's club and tell them you either need a new one or an upgrade. Oh, and make sure you face it the right way. It's part of that magnetic strip on the back of your card...

Seriously, play your game - stick to BS and your numbers and in the long run all will be well. Trust me, there will be a day when you are the one getting "all the good cards" but your fellow players are not, but you won't remember that day as strongly.
 
Kaiser

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
This reminds me of a time I took a good friend out to the casino. He doesn't count at all, and relied on me for quite a bit of advice on his hands. He didn't know basic strategy down pat.

The sonofabitch had more than 20 blackjacks in that 2 hour session. Honest to god. Here I was, "the expert", having my ass handed to me by the guy I'm supposed to be teaching how to play the game.

Lady luck is a whore.

:whip:
 
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