When it works...

[shadroch]

You live in Arizona,yes? Aren't there all sorts of free junket-type buses to Laughlin,where there are much better games? I even offered you a two free night hotel stay in Laughlin a few weeks ago.
If you choose to play in inferior games,thats your choice. If you lived inon the East Coast and there were no games for hundreds and hundreds of miles,it's one thing,but how far from laughlin are you?
As I posted on another thread,Tropicana Xpress is giving free slot play in the amount of double your gas receipt,so driving there not only doesn't cost you anything,it pays you to.

 

[TheApprentice]

yeah but...

You live in Arizona,yes? Aren't there all sorts of free junket-type buses to Laughlin,where there are much better games? I even offered you a two free night hotel stay in Laughlin a few weeks ago.
If you choose to play in inferior games,thats your choice. If you lived inon the East Coast and there were no games for hundreds and hundreds of miles,it's one thing,but how far from laughlin are you?
As I posted on another thread,Tropicana Xpress is giving free slot play in the amount of double your gas receipt,so driving there not only doesn't cost you anything,it pays you to.

....time is money, though. There's a big difference between stopping by a casino for an hour or two after work and planning an entire day-trip.
As a recreational player who enjoys playing, one can also justify a smaller $/hour profit as "paying for entertainment".
I can't remember the last time I spent a few hours in a bar, strip club, movie theater, etc and came away with a few more bucks than I showed up with!

 

[hawkeye]

shadroch,
You may be right, I haven't looked into the buses for Laughlin. Not a bad idea.

I agree with the APprentice though, it's easy to go somewhere 15 minutes from my house for 2 hours on a weekend then it is to go out of town for the weekend. You have a point though.

And the game I play here isn't that bad, is it? DOA, DAS, 6 deck with variable penetration...but sometimes very good pen, resplitting aces, etc. It's not a horrible game.

I can see it being considered bad when it's crowded, but like I said in my example I was there at a peak time with relatives. I can find a heads-up game no problem at off-times, I've done it many times.

 

[Kasi]

I know the win was way above expected variance, but my last few times out before that they were all way below expected variance.

See, I was thinking maybe your win maybe wasn't all that unusual lol. But I don't know of course - I don't know when you're betting what etc, whether you do it religiously or, like most human beings, sometimes do different stuff lol.

Having consecutive sessions "way" above or below normal might not be normal lol. Maybe the swings are more normal than you may think lol.

Anyway when you ask "And the game I play here isn't that bad, is it?", the only opinion that really counts is yours lol.

What would make it a "good" or "bad" game to you anyway? $'s per hand/ or hour? At what risk to your roll, etc.

But, traditionally, I think, playing-all in a 6D game with a 1-6 spread is a tough road to travel lol.

Who knows, you may even come to enjoy the game even more, the more you can pin-point the answer to such questions. Or even change your approach to the game that you do play most often- like back-counting or play the beginning of every shoe but exit at -1 to cut down the negative hands played. etc. Which might change your your min bet and spread and win-rate with even same risk to roll. Maybe you'll confidently know more exactly what you want to do when you do get that great cut-card pen lol. Maybe know when to decide to change things or not after increasing or decreasing overall roll.

Just throwing a bunch of stuff at you, areas to explore, lol.

As always, best of luck.

 

[shadroch]

....time is money, though. There's a big difference between stopping by a casino for an hour or two after work and planning an entire day-trip.
As a recreational player who enjoys playing, one can also justify a smaller $/hour profit as "paying for entertainment".
I can't remember the last time I spent a few hours in a bar, strip club, movie theater, etc and came away with a few more bucks than I showed up with!

Time is NOT money. You can borrow money,try borrowing time. You can recover lost money,try doing that with time.


They have day trips to Laughlin from the Valley of The Sun. I'd think they have them from other areas. You get a movie on the bus,a free buffet,a matchplay and a set of WIN cards.

 

[Kasi]

Takes what the numbers say but they don't tell you the whole story...

Glad you said that lol. Saying how many dollars one has won or lost is pretty meaningless without knowing other stuff - like maybe you only played 100 hours in 8 yeras or maybe 16000 hrs or bet $5/hand or $1000/hd kind of thing.

Maybe you're a CC who should have won $470,000 by now or maybe someone who knows when the count is + and bets "more" then lol.

Also, I was thinking, fwiw, I've never run a sim in my life either until a couple months ago (Gave free Powersim a try lol) lol.

But I've never committed the money or time you have to card-counting lol.

So, I was wondering, have you closed your mind forever to running sims? If so, maybe why? You could always ignore any results from it anyway lol. I can't imagine it's the $100?

No big deal lol. Complicated question lol.

No need to reply if too personal.

Like, on the one side, the world has me, motivated perhaps primarily by fear, who never played a hand without knowing what to expect, as best I could anyway, always knowing every hand I played had a -EV $ value attached to it, (+EV value since only a portion of the money wagered was mine) and, on the other side, you (not you personally, people like you maybe) who have played for 8 years without, maybe, or so it may seem, knowing what to expect for even an hour let alone 8 years lol.

How the heck do you do it

 

[InPlay]

Glad you said that lol. Saying how many dollars one has won or lost is pretty meaningless without knowing other stuff - like maybe you only played 100 hours in 8 yeras or maybe 16000 hrs or bet $5/hand or $1000/hd kind of thing.

Maybe you're a CC who should have won $470,000 by now or maybe someone who knows when the count is + and bets "more" then lol.


Also, I was thinking, fwiw, I've never run a sim in my life either until a couple months ago (Gave free Powersim a try lol) lol.

But I've never committed the money or time you have to card-counting lol.

So, I was wondering, have you closed your mind forever to running sims? If so, maybe why? You could always ignore any results from it anyway lol. I can't imagine it's the $100?


No big deal lol. Complicated question lol.

No need to reply if too personal.

Like, on the one side, the world has me, motivated perhaps primarily by fear, who never played a hand without knowing what to expect, as best I could anyway, always knowing every hand I played had a -EV $ value attached to it, (+EV value since only a portion of the money wagered was mine) and, on the other side, you (not you personally, people like you maybe) who have played for 8 years without, maybe, or so it may seem, knowing what to expect for even an hour let alone 8 years lol.


How the heck do you do it

I have played plenty of hours in the early stages I was playing a average of about 60 hours a week for a couple of years. I have always played with green chips and sometime black.

Thats true but the variance has smacked me a couple of times. The last smack was a 21 month losing streak.
My mind is not closed I am always looking for new ways to win. Just probally to lazy. Plus I am not afraid to gamble. I basically know the game and what to expect from it. I know S17 is basically better then H17 if all the other factors are the same. I know peneration is one of the main factors of the score of the game. I know all the little things a casino gives and takes from the player that determine the score of the game. I just don't put it in a computer.

Maybe just luck or I am still in a positive variance. Maybe the main factor is I am not afraid to gamble or lose.

 

[sagefr0g]

I have played plenty of hours in the early stages I was playing a average of about 60 hours a week for a couple of years. I have always played with green chips and sometime black.

Thats true but the variance has smacked me a couple of times. The last smack was a 21 month losing streak.

just curious player but when you refer to a losing streak do you mean when your behind some all time high for a stretch of time or do you mean a stretch of time where you can't get ahead and or your bankroll keeps declining?

My mind is not closed I am always looking for new ways to win. Just probally to lazy. Plus I am not afraid to gamble. I basically know the game and what to expect from it. I know S17 is basically better then H17 if all the other factors are the same. I know peneration is one of the main factors of the score of the game. I know all the little things a casino gives and takes from the player that determine the score of the game. I just don't put it in a computer.

yeah knowing all of that and you use either hi/lo or kissIII. so in essense you know a lot of the things a sim can tell you and you just don't bother fussing around with simulations. sort of why fix it if it ain't broke sorta thing. lol.
so but anyway glad to hear that mind is being kept open.

Maybe just luck or I am still in a positive variance. Maybe the main factor is I am not afraid to gamble or lose.

that's part of where sims and maybe a spreadsheet (or even plain ole pencil and paper and a few formulas) and keeping track of the type of game and number of hands played might be interesting to you.
with taking that much trouble you could end up knowing rather precisly just how lucky, how much variance you've been experiencing for as little as a sessions worth of play or as much as your nine years of play.
but as far as fear and the gamble and losing i've never been blessed with a stoic nature. lol. it's part of for me what has been part of a journey like i say through various mental mind states of perhaps an immature philosphical mind set to (hopefully) a more mature philosophical mind set. one where the intellectual blinders are off to a greater degree to where maybe one can approach the gamble a bit wiser. maybe the fog is lifted just a bit so that you can see the fog a bit clearer. lmao. a gamble is always gonna remain a mystery or it won't be a gamble anymore will it?
thing is for me one thing i've learned is if you can learn what is expected not just what your expectation is but your prospects of luck as well then to some degree the fear factor, the impending dread that involves that question becomes not quite so powerful. and then too maybe you have a little more to work with when it comes to the question of the gamble. anyway not to worry the adrenaline rush will always still be there.
continued good luck to you.

 

[InPlay]

just curious player but when you refer to a losing streak do you mean when your behind some all time high for a stretch of time or do you mean a stretch of time where you can't get ahead and or your bankroll keeps declining?

yeah knowing all of that and you use either hi/lo or kissIII. so in essense you know a lot of the things a sim can tell you and you just don't bother fussing around with simulations. sort of why fix it if it ain't broke sorta thing. lol.
so but anyway glad to hear that mind is being kept open.

that's part of where sims and maybe a spreadsheet (or even plain ole pencil and paper and a few formulas) and keeping track of the type of game and number of hands played might be interesting to you.
with taking that much trouble you could end up knowing rather precisly just how lucky, how much variance you've been experiencing for as little as a sessions worth of play or as much as your nine years of play.
but as far as fear and the gamble and losing i've never been blessed with a stoic nature. lol. it's part of for me what has been part of a journey like i say through various mental mind states of perhaps an immature philosphical mind set to (hopefully) a more mature philosophical mind set. one where the intellectual blinders are off to a greater degree to where maybe one can approach the gamble a bit wiser. maybe the fog is lifted just a bit so that you can see the fog a bit clearer. lmao. a gamble is always gonna remain a mystery or it won't be a gamble anymore will it?
thing is for me one thing i've learned is if you can learn what is expected not just what your expectation is but your prospects of luck as well then to some degree the fear factor, the impending dread that involves that question becomes not quite so powerful. and then too maybe you have a little more to work with when it comes to the question of the gamble. anyway not to worry the adrenaline rush will always still be there.
continued good luck to you.

I keep score by the months and year. That means my bankroll was smaller then the previous month or the year.

That's true about sims. I am not the smartest but then also I am the the dumbest I can playing a winning game. I plan on doing what I have been doing because it works for me. I am sure I have done something I should of not have done like steaming. Don't get me wrong I never like to lose but like I said I am not afraid to put the money out there. Maybe if I had run sims I would have not played in some of the games I have played in. Maybe it is better to be lucky then good. Luck goes a long way.

Talk about luck I had mentioned this once before I worked with a guy did not know the first thing about BJ. He starts with $1500 and ends up with$$636,000. It's a long story it happen at the MGM in Detroit. I talked to one of the dealers that were dealing to him and they had never seen anything like it. He best run was losing 5 hands out of 2 6 deck shoes playing head up. The casino done everthing to get their money back. The table limits were raised from $2500 to $10,000 for him. Another time I had sat down with him I seen him losing $60,000 in about an hour playing 2 hands $2,000 to $5,000 a hand. After be blows $60,000 I say not to good of a day. He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a check for $700,000. Here is a guy who has no idea about BJ or even BS and clears 1.3 million. I have not seen him in 2 years the last time I heard he was still swinging. He could be broke for all I know but I still would like to be in those shoes with that money. This is a true story not made up.

 

[hawkeye]

" it is better to be lucky then good"

Always.

 

[Bojack1]

" it is better to be lucky then good"

Always.

Lucky makes for a good day, being good makes for a great life.

 

[InPlay]

Lucky makes for a good day, being good makes for a great life.

Great words but not always true. If you don't mind tell us what your yearly average income is playing BJ ? I assume BJ playing is what you do for a living or maybe you are just a rec player with a lot of book knowledge ?

 

[Bojack1]

Great words but not always true. If you don't mind tell us what your yearly average income is playing BJ ? I assume BJ playing is what you do for a living or maybe you are just a rec player with a lot of book knowledge ?

My quote is meant for more than just blackjack. The rewards of a skill mastered will ultimately outweigh those gained by luck. When the difference can be deciphered, you can accept luck good or bad for what it is. At that point it is merely a boost or a bump in the road to success.

My income from blackjack is irrelevant and not in any way pertinent in my views on luck or skill. I will offer this though, recreation for me doesn't include meandering around crowded casinos for hours at a time with rigid schedules and playing guidelines. Thats work, and it pays. As I have said before, I get my kicks outside the casino. Oh by the way, I do consider myself to have a bit of book knowledge as well.

 

[hawkeye]

I think it's the difference between playing blackjack, even as an AP, as a leisure time hobby as opposed to playing as a pro. I'm a musician in my spare time, but I would have to practice and study a lot more to be a pro. But that doesn't mean I'm a lousy musician just because it's a hobby. I think the same can apply to blackjack.

Also, I wouldn't question BoJack's blackjack chops.

 

[InPlay]

Also, I wouldn't question BoJack's blackjack chops.

Why ? They all put their pants on the same way. Anyone can sit behing a key board and start preaching the holy grail and why nothing else will work until you have played a million hands. I would like to know if he makes his living playing BJ or his he just a nother sims runner. Playing and spouting theory is 2 differnt things. Would he be willing to reach in his pocket for his own money and lay it done or just run sims. They all won't answer questions when they are directed to them they all hide behind some BS response. Like I said before ARROGANCE!

 

[InPlay]

My quote is meant for more than just blackjack. The rewards of a skill mastered will ultimately outweigh those gained by luck. When the difference can be deciphered, you can accept luck good or bad for what it is. At that point it is merely a boost or a bump in the road to success.

My income from blackjack is irrelevant and not in any way pertinent in my views on luck or skill. I will offer this though, recreation for me doesn't include meandering around crowded casinos for hours at a time with rigid schedules and playing guidelines. Thats work, and it pays. As I have said before, I get my kicks outside the casino. Oh by the way, I do consider myself to have a bit of book knowledge as well.

Since we all know the lottery is the biggest sucker bet ever. Would you like to be lucky enough to win the lottery ?

 

[hawkeye]

I understand your frustration with some of the responders who automatically discount what you say, then act like they have all the answers, but then they never divulge anything. Read through this thread and you'll see I have a disdain for that.

But I've also read a lot of BoJack's posts over the past few months, especially a lot on another BJ site, and he always seemed very helpful and knowledgeable without being condescending or rude. And if you choose to believe some of the stories, BoJack has proven himself.

I think quite a few people here actually do lay down money playing BJ. I can't imagine what the fun would be in running BJ sims all the time and talking about it but never playing it. I wouldn't even begin to understand why someone would waste time doing that.

But I do think that some people take the fun out it too. I believe they still have a good time playing though, just not the good time I would have.

 

[Bojack1]

Why ? They all put their pants on the same way. Anyone can sit behing a key board and start preaching the holy grail and why nothing else will work until you have played a million hands. I would like to know if he makes his living playing BJ or his he just a nother sims runner. Playing and spouting theory is 2 differnt things. Would he be willing to reach in his pocket for his own money and lay it done or just run sims. They all won't answer questions when they are directed to them they all hide behind some BS response. Like I said before ARROGANCE!

You're right you can question whatever you want. Problem is its nobody's damn business how much money I make. Would you ask a stranger what their income is? Would you expect a response? Arrogance is thinking my business is yours. I offer what I want to share, if my answers don't meet your standards then so be it. Furthermore as you say I can be just sitting here bullsh*ting about it all anyway, so what would it matter.

I offer my advice and my opinions to whomever wants to listen to it. If that ain't you, so what. I don't feel going on about money won or lost makes a difference while talking on the internet. I do feel it doesn't take long though to decipher whats good or bad advice no matter where you get it.

And if you must know how much I've made playing blackjack I'll tell you this, a hell of a lot more than you....... and your lucky friend. Now what good does that do you? Does that make everything I say more believable or less? Get the point?

 

[Bojack1]

Since we all know the lottery is the biggest sucker bet ever. Would you like to be lucky enough to win the lottery ?

Sure, winning the lottery would be great. But the my quote you used to ask this question pertains to mastering skills. I do not consider buying lottery tickets skills. I am talking about real world true to life application in my quote.

While winning the lottery is truly a high standard of luck, the results of an extremely high percentage of winners usually end on the negative side. Without some amount of skill it seems most lottery winners end up broke or worse. So maybe even the ultimate in luck is still as I see it, just a boost or a bump in the road. To some, winning the lottery will surely accelerate success, while to others its the cause of a demise that may not have happened otherwise.

 

[Sonny]

Since we all know the lottery is the biggest sucker bet ever. Would you like to be lucky enough to win the lottery ?

I'd rather be skillful enough to win it more than once, or at least smart enough to not go broke trying to win. Too many people rely on luck instead of skill and intelligence.

-Sonny-