When should you split 10's?

Shoofly said:
Another benefit of this play is that it causes ploppies to leave the table during a high count.
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That depends. I saw a girl split tens against a duece the other night and then she proceeded to bust out both hands. No one left the table. Then again she was pretty hot.
 
Lonesome Gambler said:
For BS players, never split Tens.
For card counters: Split tens if you don't like giving up lots of EV just because you heard that it was a bad move.
I would also recommend not avoiding correct use of the surrender option (including indices) or the insurance option, even though those both also bring comments from players and dealers and scrutiny from the pit (especially insurance).
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I still maintain that Insuring a 13 or 14 with a big bet out there does more to blow your cover than splitting 10's. Typically speaking, splitting and re-splitting 10's vs 5 & 6 combined is worth more than the index plays of standing with 12 vs 2 & 3 plus doubling 9 vs 2 and 11 vs Ace, all combined.
 
At Mohegan Sun (Conn.) the splitting of Tens is prohibited, as it is traditionally in England.

The pit knows that only fools and experts split Faces
or double on a soft 20.
When they see you do that - with a BIG bet - you will
be subjected to a "skills check" as you are
otherwise playing (observably) well.

The "eye" backs up the tape and sees that you had a
strong True Count, had just stood on 15 vs. a Face Card
or split 9's vs. a 7 or an Ace, took 'insurance', etc.
and now you split Faces like it's a natural move !

L.O.L.

The suits are congregating in the pit. They are behind you.
Here comes the tap on the shoulder. Too late !

:whip:
 
Ace007 said:
so in other words. don't do it huh? just wanted to know if there was a specific time to do it. so even when the count is high it would bring too much attention it seems... especially when you win.
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Splitting 10-10 is a very heaty play. It can also be a very high EV play that loses you a good casino. Almost nobody does it anymore unless they are about to end a session, are losing pretty bad already, or are unrated at a casino they care little about preserving. The standard High-Low index for 10-10 vs 6 is to split at +4 or higher but I wouldn't even consider doing it unless the count was much much higher. Check out Mathprof's Nov 1998 POM on bj21.com in their archives. He suggests waiting until at least +7 for 10-10 vs 6 and even then do it only if it fits your overall player profile. He also suggests that if the count is >+9 that the EV of the play is so strong that you should really consider trying to figure out a way to do it. Even though at that count the frequency of a 10-10 split would be rare it would still be in the top 10 of all index variations due to the high EV of the play.
 
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bigplayer said:
Splitting 10-10 is a very heaty play. It can also be a very high EV play that loses you a good casino. Almost nobody does it anymore unless they are about to end a session, are losing pretty bad already, or are unrated at a casino they care little about preserving. The standard High-Low index for 10-10 vs 6 is to split at +4 or higher but I wouldn't even consider doing it unless the count was at least several points higher.
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BP have you noticed more ploppies splitting 10s lately? zg
 
Ace007 said:
Are you only allowed to split 2 identical 10 value cards. For example 2 kings, 2 queens, or 2 10's... Or are you allowed to split any 10 value card out of a pair? Also when is it best to split 10's? I've seen some people do this, but don't know why?!
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Depends on the Casino. Generaly Speaking, you can split them regardless of the rank. While at others they have to be the same value or prohibit splitting X's all together.

I like to split Tens right around the desired index, but will only re-split at a respectivly higher index.
 
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I think part of the reason I got backed off last week was because I split tens against a 6 with a hundred dollar bet. I got a 19 and another 10 and the dealer busted.

A good cover play would be to split faces with a min bet at a negative count.
 
bigplayer said:
Splitting 10-10 is a very heaty play. It can also be a very high EV play that loses you a good casino. Almost nobody does it anymore unless they are about to end a session, are losing pretty bad already, or are unrated at a casino they care little about preserving. The standard High-Low index for 10-10 vs 6 is to split at +4 or higher but I wouldn't even consider doing it unless the count was much much higher. Check out Mathprof's Nov 1998 POM on bj21.com in their archives. He suggests waiting until at least +7 for 10-10 vs 6 and even then do it only if it fits your overall player profile. He also suggests that if the count is >+9 that the EV of the play is so strong that you should really consider trying to figure out a way to do it. Even though at that count the frequency of a 10-10 split would be rare it would still be in the top 10 of all index variations due to the high EV of the play.
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Have you personally been backed off due to splitting tens? If so, how do you know it was because of the ten split?
 
I split 10s last week at pocono downs

I got a 3 and then 10. the dealer had a 6 up 9 in the hole and I saved the table as I took his 3. I looked like a hero everytime after that when I had 10s the ploppies wanted me to split. Unfortunately opportunity only arose once more and I split the 2 hands.
 
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If you're playing in a manner that splitting tens gets you busted, you're going to get busted anyway.

Don't throw money away, split face cards
 
I appropriately split tens a few weeks ago at my favorite cardroom and the dealer called to the floor person "splitting tens!". (Must be some sort of internal control at this cardroom.) Anyway, I nearly pooped my pants. Fortunately I was there at a time I don't usually come in so the floor person didn't know that I typically play perfect BS and more or less ignored the dealer.

It's the second time I've split ten's at this casino (the other time I ended up splitting them to 4 hands with no comment at all, so maybe the procedure isn't always followed). Needless to say, there won't be a 3rd time.
 


You were NOT experiencing "heat."

Normal protocol is for dealers to shout out any unusual plays so that "angle shooters" cannot "take a free shot" by claiming the dealer's actions were NOT what they wanted to do, pursuant to a bad outcome.

Hit a Hard 17 and listen to the dealer sing.
 
You can split tens a few times on low count min bets for it to stand out less when you do it on a high count. Obviously only do it when the pit boss is watching, and the dealer has a 6 or 5 out for it to have the least amount of impact on EV.



When you split on high counts, use risk averse adjusted indices (split on 6 at +5, and split on 5 at +6), and when you do do it take a break at the end of the shoe.

If you don't want to split 10's, Doubling 8's vs 6s and 5s at counts of +2 and +4 respectively is way less of a sweat inducing move, and recoups half the EV lost from not splitting 10s.
 
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Either always against a 6 or never

The dealer 6 busts 42% of the time, in positive counts this rises in negative it falls.

Splitting tens against a 6 in a +4 count is correct, but in a negative count it is a mistake. If you always do so you look like a ploppy. If you do it sometimes, you look like a counter

If you do it 4 times in a neutral count with an extra $20 on the line and 3 times in a negative count with an extra $10 on the line and 3 times in a positive count with an extra $100 on the line do you make more?

Lets say you break even on the neutral bets, lose $30 on the negative bets but win 2/3rds of the big bets. Thats an extra $70.

Million hand simulations may disagree, but It can make a profit.

If you only want to do it when correct, do it if you can only find 6:5 single deck games (empty tables).:whip:
 
Last two times I split 10s, they dealer wound up with 4-card 21s :mad: First time TC was +12 and I split 4 times, and the second time +9.
 
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