Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[shadroch]

Originally Posted by QFIT

It was clear that Cipher BJ was a fraud early on based on his absurd claims about casino RNGs; gambling 'trend analysis,' claims the software would work on both land and web casinos; and claims of consistent large wins paid by I'Net casinos. I think it is clear now to all that he is a con man. That just lumps him in with hundreds of other fraudulent system sellers. By engaging in what appears to be a ponzi scheme; he may have taken this a step farther than most system sellers to a serious crime. However, it is unclear as to whether he knew it was a ponzi scheme from the start or that he really was ignorant to the point of believing his own hype.

But, what really bothers me is that his site is still up. He is still trying to sell his useless software for $1,000 a pop to new unsuspecting marks. Even after we have explained to him why the system cannot work and he apparently can see the predicted results. That is criminal.

So when does he get his well deserved spot on your wall of shame?

[zengrifter]

Unfortunately, CIPHER will further use these threads to rationalize why LChips should either not be repaid or otherwise accept a $500mo repay plan. Also, his atorney will create a smokescreen that LChips was attempting an abusive-usurious collection, etc.

LChips strongest leverage is the threat of making a fraud-ponzi claim to secure repay of principal. zg

[sk8uno]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

Unfortunately, CIPHER will further use these threads to rationalize why LChips should either not be repaid or otherwise accept a $500mo repay plan. Also, his atorney will create a smokescreen that LChips was attempting an abusive-usurious collection, etc.

LChips strongest leverage is the threat of making a fraud-ponzi claim to secure repay of principal. zg

ZG-

Cipher does not have an attorney. First, if he doesn't have the money to repay his investors, he certainly won't have money to pay an attorney. Second, Cipher would not seek a legal solution because his "investment" group is illegal.

[QFIT]

Originally Posted by shadroch

So when does he get his well deserved spot on your wall of shame?

BJScams articles are on classes of scams; not individuals. The only thing he's doing not already covered on the site is taking investments and promising returns. That's not much different from a guaranteed gambling system. Guaranteed and gambling don't belong in the same sentence. More generally, guaranteed and high return don't belong in the same sentence.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by QFIT

It was clear that Cipher BJ was a fraud early on based on his absurd claims about casino RNGs; gambling 'trend analysis,' claims the software would work on both land and web casinos; and claims of consistent large wins paid by I'Net casinos. I think it is clear now to all that he is a con man. That just lumps him in with hundreds of other fraudulent system sellers. By engaging in what appears to be a ponzi scheme; he may have taken this a step farther than most system sellers to a serious crime. However, it is unclear as to whether he knew it was a ponzi scheme from the start or that he really was ignorant to the point of believing his own hype.

But, what really bothers me is that his site is still up. He is still trying to sell his useless software for $1,000 a pop to new unsuspecting marks. Even after we have explained to him why the system cannot work and he apparently can see the predicted results. That is criminal.

As I said in another post, it is quite pathological too. Most thieves want to steal and then get away and try to maintain anonymity. This one wants to come back to the scene of the crime and hector his victims. And we all know what happened to the Hector of mythology. With behavior like that I have this sneaking feeling Cipher may end up in a hospital before a jail.

[lvhcm]

Originally Posted by Liquid Chips

Subtitle: Pulling Back the Curtain

http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/fo...2932#post92932

LOL, you're a ****ing moron who deserved everything he got.

How rich is this thread? I wonder if Zengrifter ever paid back the people he scammed, including the woman who "cried all day and night"? The neophyte AP's whose bankrolls he pilfered? The blackjack team he stole from? Sounds like ZG is just jealous he didn't get to this mark first...

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by lvhcm

LOL, you're a ****ing moron who deserved everything he got.

How rich is this thread? I wonder if Zengrifter ever paid back the people he scammed, including the woman who "cried all day and night"? The neophyte AP's whose bankrolls he pilfered? The blackjack team he stole from? Sounds like ZG is just jealous he didn't get to this mark first...

The people I "scammed" made $600m in cellular before losing $100m in wireless cable due to the FCC corruption. And the lady who "cried and cried", according to FBI's Susan Pigliatcelli? Susan would tell you that that loss had nothing to do with me. zg

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by sk8uno

Cipher ...."investment" group is illegal.

Yes, it is apparently a form of illicit (unregistered) security known as an investment contract. If and when it is revealed by the FBI/Postal Inspector that he used the funds for personal it will be a criminal case. zg

[QFIT]

Well, we can look back at past mistakes; or we can look forward. Yes someone made a serious error in trusting what some of us early on and most everyone now realizes is a con man. But, instead of blaming (and laughing at) the victim, wouldn’t it be more useful to give advice going forward and suggest methods that might reduce future victims?

I don’t have the answers. The answer for LC lies in the con man’s intent, assets, form and substance of agreements, communications, and claims. Clearly it is lawyer time. Unfortunately, lawyers are expensive and the law is slow. And I don’t know if small claims fits the bill.

The other question is avoidance of other such future problems. I started www.blackjack-scams.com as a tiny attempt to spread info on the problems in our field. But, it has commanded little attention. (Although I’m happy to say it gets more hits than the scammer du jour’s site.) We that are a part of the advantage player community would do well to police ourselves and find ways to spread information about the con-men about us rather than laugh at the victims. Otherwise, what jury would look on us with favor when we ask the court’s help after a back-rooming? And I include among those con-men, dice system sellers, pushers of weak strategies and popular, sleazy BJ forum owners that selectively censor posts. (Fortunately this is not one such site.)

norm

http://www.blackjack-scams.com

[CIPHER]

Originally Posted by Liquid Chips

Considering that I had important errands to run...Gee, getting gas and visiting the Post Office costs me more than I thought. Missed the deadline that I didn't know existed. Boohoo.

In any case, I wasn't going to wait 1 1/2 YEARS to get the full amount. $17,600 in one payment, nothing less. Then I won't press charges. But if I don't get it....well, there are many offers of legal help I'm getting.

It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count.

All further comments from me will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.
__________________
cipher