Cipher- The Wizard of BJ
- Thread starter Liquid Chips
- Start date
I don't understand why the "legal climate with regards [to] Internet Gambling" means that you can only pay $500 twice a month. Can you explain that?
So if I want my $17,600 in one payment, then I would have to pursue legal means? Cipher, I wouldn't just be pursuing just $17,600 but rather the "interest" too on that per our agreement. As long as you got the principal in your possession, the agreement doesn't stop just because you said so.
Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you.
So if I want my $17,600 in one payment, then I would have to pursue legal means? Cipher, I wouldn't just be pursuing just $17,600 but rather the "interest" too on that per our agreement. As long as you got the principal in your possession, the agreement doesn't stop just because you said so.
Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you.
yup
You are right Cipher, that is where I got this nickname. Both of my parents were sad to have me. But I don't blame them, I'm nothing special. The difference between you and me is that I am aware of who I am. You deceive yourself into thinking you (1) are smart, (2) matter, and (3) aren't fat.
So you expect me to believe you are driving down to La Jolla with your laptop between you and your steering wheel answering posts on blackjack website? BULLSHIT. And don't try to claim you aren't the one driving, because we all know no one would (voluntarily) drive your fat ass down to La Jolla from Visalia.
You are right Cipher, that is where I got this nickname. Both of my parents were sad to have me. But I don't blame them, I'm nothing special. The difference between you and me is that I am aware of who I am. You deceive yourself into thinking you (1) are smart, (2) matter, and (3) aren't fat.
So you expect me to believe you are driving down to La Jolla with your laptop between you and your steering wheel answering posts on blackjack website? BULLSHIT. And don't try to claim you aren't the one driving, because we all know no one would (voluntarily) drive your fat ass down to La Jolla from Visalia.
Bruce-
I think it is time to own up to everything. Offering to pay Liquid Chips in installments (twice) does not solve anything. As has been pointed out, Liquid Chips is not the only one that has "invested" with you, and you need to repay the others as well. Let me ask you something - do you still have LC's money or did you lose/spend it? Do you still have the other investor's money or did you lose/spend it? If so, pay them - all of the investors that want their money back. If not tell them why you no longer have their money. It is that simple. There is no reason to continue evading questions, it is just wasting everyone's time. I cannot speak for anyone that has invested with you, but I know that if I were in their shoes I would really appreciate some honesty from you. This doesn't have to get any worse, I think this could still turn around with a little cooperation. It is time to show what kind of man you are - a lying scamming degenerate theif or an honest guy who let things get out of hand by believeing in a flawed system. After reading all of your posts that is the one thing I can't decide, do you actually believe in your system or not?
I think it is time to own up to everything. Offering to pay Liquid Chips in installments (twice) does not solve anything. As has been pointed out, Liquid Chips is not the only one that has "invested" with you, and you need to repay the others as well. Let me ask you something - do you still have LC's money or did you lose/spend it? Do you still have the other investor's money or did you lose/spend it? If so, pay them - all of the investors that want their money back. If not tell them why you no longer have their money. It is that simple. There is no reason to continue evading questions, it is just wasting everyone's time. I cannot speak for anyone that has invested with you, but I know that if I were in their shoes I would really appreciate some honesty from you. This doesn't have to get any worse, I think this could still turn around with a little cooperation. It is time to show what kind of man you are - a lying scamming degenerate theif or an honest guy who let things get out of hand by believeing in a flawed system. After reading all of your posts that is the one thing I can't decide, do you actually believe in your system or not?
Cipher is a douche bag
I think its obvious to everyone that Cipher is a thief and a liar. That being said, Cipher loves Cheetos. Seriously he really loves Cheetos. He eats them all the freaking time. I think its safe to assume that he spent all of the money he scammed from people on Cheetos. He loves Cheetos. and sitting. but especially Cheetos.
I think its obvious to everyone that Cipher is a thief and a liar. That being said, Cipher loves Cheetos. Seriously he really loves Cheetos. He eats them all the freaking time. I think its safe to assume that he spent all of the money he scammed from people on Cheetos. He loves Cheetos. and sitting. but especially Cheetos.
It was clear that Cipher BJ was a fraud early on based on his absurd claims about casino RNGs; gambling 'trend analysis,' claims the software would work on both land and web casinos; and claims of consistent large wins paid by I'Net casinos. I think it is clear now to all that he is a con man. That just lumps him in with hundreds of other fraudulent system sellers. By engaging in what appears to be a ponzi scheme; he may have taken this a step farther than most system sellers to a serious crime. However, it is unclear as to whether he knew it was a ponzi scheme from the start or that he really was ignorant to the point of believing his own hype.
But, what really bothers me is that his site is still up. He is still trying to sell his useless software for $1,000 a pop to new unsuspecting marks. Even after we have explained to him why the system cannot work and he apparently can see the predicted results. That is criminal.
But, what really bothers me is that his site is still up. He is still trying to sell his useless software for $1,000 a pop to new unsuspecting marks. Even after we have explained to him why the system cannot work and he apparently can see the predicted results. That is criminal.
Unfortunately, CIPHER will further use these threads to rationalize why LChips should either not be repaid or otherwise accept a $500mo repay plan. Also, his atorney will create a smokescreen that LChips was attempting an abusive-usurious collection, etc.
LChips strongest leverage is the threat of making a fraud-ponzi claim to secure repay of principal. zg
LChips strongest leverage is the threat of making a fraud-ponzi claim to secure repay of principal. zg
BJScams articles are on classes of scams; not individuals. The only thing he's doing not already covered on the site is taking investments and promising returns. That's not much different from a guaranteed gambling system. Guaranteed and gambling don't belong in the same sentence. More generally, guaranteed and high return don't belong in the same sentence.
As I said in another post, it is quite pathological too. Most thieves want to steal and then get away and try to maintain anonymity. This one wants to come back to the scene of the crime and hector his victims. And we all know what happened to the Hector of mythology. With behavior like that I have this sneaking feeling Cipher may end up in a hospital before a jail.
LOL, you're a fucking moron who deserved everything he got.
How rich is this thread? I wonder if Zengrifter ever paid back the people he scammed, including the woman who "cried all day and night"? The neophyte AP's whose bankrolls he pilfered? The blackjack team he stole from? Sounds like ZG is just jealous he didn't get to this mark first...
How rich is this thread? I wonder if Zengrifter ever paid back the people he scammed, including the woman who "cried all day and night"? The neophyte AP's whose bankrolls he pilfered? The blackjack team he stole from? Sounds like ZG is just jealous he didn't get to this mark first...
Well, we can look back at past mistakes; or we can look forward. Yes someone made a serious error in trusting what some of us early on and most everyone now realizes is a con man. But, instead of blaming (and laughing at) the victim, wouldn’t it be more useful to give advice going forward and suggest methods that might reduce future victims?
I don’t have the answers. The answer for LC lies in the con man’s intent, assets, form and substance of agreements, communications, and claims. Clearly it is lawyer time. Unfortunately, lawyers are expensive and the law is slow. And I don’t know if small claims fits the bill.
The other question is avoidance of other such future problems. I started http://www.blackjack-scams.com as a tiny attempt to spread info on the problems in our field. But, it has commanded little attention. (Although I’m happy to say it gets more hits than the scammer du jour’s site.) We that are a part of the advantage player community would do well to police ourselves and find ways to spread information about the con-men about us rather than laugh at the victims. Otherwise, what jury would look on us with favor when we ask the court’s help after a back-rooming? And I include among those con-men, dice system sellers, pushers of weak strategies and popular, sleazy BJ forum owners that selectively censor posts. (Fortunately this is not one such site.)
norm
I don’t have the answers. The answer for LC lies in the con man’s intent, assets, form and substance of agreements, communications, and claims. Clearly it is lawyer time. Unfortunately, lawyers are expensive and the law is slow. And I don’t know if small claims fits the bill.
The other question is avoidance of other such future problems. I started http://www.blackjack-scams.com as a tiny attempt to spread info on the problems in our field. But, it has commanded little attention. (Although I’m happy to say it gets more hits than the scammer du jour’s site.) We that are a part of the advantage player community would do well to police ourselves and find ways to spread information about the con-men about us rather than laugh at the victims. Otherwise, what jury would look on us with favor when we ask the court’s help after a back-rooming? And I include among those con-men, dice system sellers, pushers of weak strategies and popular, sleazy BJ forum owners that selectively censor posts. (Fortunately this is not one such site.)
norm
It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count.
All further comments from me will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com (Archive copy). If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.
At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.
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cipher
All further comments from me will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com (Archive copy). If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.
At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.
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cipher