Speed Counting

Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Speed Count (aka OPP) is a very weak system. In many cases it won’t give you an advantage, and when it does you end up with huge variance. Basically, it is a legitimate system but the risk is often not worth the reward.

Here are a few old threads about it:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=7825
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2570
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6689
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6269
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=5945

There is also a section on BlackjackForumOnline.com with many articles about the OPP system. If you’re considering learning how to count cards, systems like KO, Red 7 and HiLo are just as easy and much more powerful.

-Sonny-
 
S

SPX

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
You will mostly get negative opinions around here, but Fred Renzey did recently have this to say in a post:

"As for the Speed Count, I personally think it's gotten a bad rap. It's clearly inferior to traditional full scale counts, but does produce a positive EV. In running what jury-rigged sims I could program for it, it appeared to perform decidedly better than the Ace/10 Front Count, slightly inferior to or equal to KISS I, and considerably weaker than KISS III, KO or Hi/Lo. It simply is what it is, and has its slot -- a recreational player's counting system."
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
I very rarely disagree with Fred - but do in this case. SC has about 35% of the performance of KO. The advertisements grossly exaggerate performance and ease of use.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
I think I may need to practice OPP a little bit, just to get an idea of how easy it really is.

I still take the opinion that if *I* can learn KO, then anybody can.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
QFIT said:
I very rarely disagree with Fred - but do in this case. SC has about 35% of the performance of KO. The advertisements grossly exaggerate performance and ease of use.
Click to expand...
Mr Renzey says its "considerably weaker." You disagree and say it has 35% of the performance. Whats your definition of considerably weaker?
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
shadroch said:
Mr Renzey says its "considerably weaker." You disagree and say it has 35% of the performance. Whats your definition of considerably weaker?
Click to expand...
I don't believe it has "gotten a bad rap." Read the ad. They stand up in the seminar with a slide that claims “70 to 95 percent of the positive edge of professional systems such as High-Low.” They claim “you could learn and apply this new method in the casino after only two days of practice!.” They claim “you’ll get that great power in virtually all games, with none of the drawbacks!”

I'm really bothered by claims that beating casinos is easy. Everyone here has the experience to know you can't become an advantage player in two days. Or two weeks or two months. Fact is, Speed Count has a ridiculously high risk of ruin. I believe most people would be better off using Basic Strategy. But if they are going to use it – they should at least be informed of the real numbers. Speed Count is a scam.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
QFIT said:
Fact is, Speed Count has a ridiculously high risk of ruin. I believe most people would be better off using Basic Strategy. But if they are going to use it – they should at least be informed of the real numbers. Speed Count is a scam.
Click to expand...
Nice way of laying it out straight and to the point. :eyepatch:

Consider who is marketing it...look at the advertising claims...then move on to a "real" counting system that is simple and much more effective.

good luck
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
QFIT said:
I don't believe it has "gotten a bad rap." Read the ad. They stand up in the seminar with a slide that claims “70 to 95 percent of the positive edge of professional systems such as High-Low.” They claim “you could learn and apply this new method in the casino after only two days of practice!.” They claim “you’ll get that great power in virtually all games, with none of the drawbacks!”

I'm really bothered by claims that beating casinos is easy. Everyone here has the experience to know you can't become an advantage player in two days. Or two weeks or two months. Fact is, Speed Count has a ridiculously high risk of ruin. I believe most people would be better off using Basic Strategy. But if they are going to use it – they should at least be informed of the real numbers. Speed Count is a scam.
Click to expand...
Can you simply answer my question.
Mr Renzy says its considerably weaker than KO. You say you disagree and find it is 35% of KO. From your statements,I'm assuming that you don't find 35% to be considerably weaker. So what is?
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
shadroch said:
Can you simply answer my question.
Mr Renzy says its considerably weaker than KO. You say you disagree and find it is 35% of KO. From your statements,I'm assuming that you don't find 35% to be considerably weaker. So what is?
Click to expand...
I thought I had. I disagree that it has received a "bad rap." I disagree that recreational players should use it. I believe the false advertising makes it dangerous.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
shadroch said:
Mr Renzy says its considerably weaker than KO. You say you disagree and find it is 35% of KO. From your statements,I'm assuming that you don't find 35% to be considerably weaker.
Click to expand...
I don’t think Qfit disagrees that it is considerably weaker. In fact, he helped to prove it. I believe he only disagrees with Fred’s endorsement of it. On a risk-adjusted basis the system just doesn’t hold up.

-Sonny-
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top