John Grochowski's latest column at Casino City Times:
Casinos should make games better
Casinos should make games better
Casinos should make games better
- Thread starter KenSmith
- Start date
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
This makes me wonder, about the future of blackjack. Will the games get better or will they continue to get worse. I could of been a rocket scientist by now, from the time ive invested in blackjack.
I mean come on now, gamblers are the lifeblood of the casinos, so why not appease them with appealing games. Give them something back for the billions they gaven you. Besides a lousy dinner.
I can barely beat the game sitting in the sterile atmosohere of my own kitchen. Let alone a noisy casino! What are they afraid of, its ridicolous, they should have some morals and go out stealing for a living.Thieves.
I mean come on now, gamblers are the lifeblood of the casinos, so why not appease them with appealing games. Give them something back for the billions they gaven you. Besides a lousy dinner.
I can barely beat the game sitting in the sterile atmosohere of my own kitchen. Let alone a noisy casino! What are they afraid of, its ridicolous, they should have some morals and go out stealing for a living.Thieves.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
The games will not get better or worse, only different. As long as there is a human dealing printed paper cards to players there will always be a way to beat the game. The ways to beat it will change, but the game itself will not get better or worse, only different.
-Sonny-
bj bob
Well-Known Member
Ahead of my time?
I seriously doubt that 5 out of 100 BJ players would be able to take advantage of expanded rules such as insurance, DAS, DOA and suurender. The five percent who could would just represent a normal "cost of doing business" while providing the elusive "golden carrot" notion for the rest of the masses.
Just the other night, this guy on 1st base stands on an A-5 with a $150 bet. Money right down the toilet! I just shook my head since I knew this guy was a sucessful and intellengent car dealer (table chit-chat), but was such an idiot at BJ.
This excerpt hits a nerve with me, in that I've maintained for some time now that the casinos have been "choking" themselves by overly restrictive BJ rules due to the false fear of being hammered by card counters. Mr. Tamburin's statements reflect the concepts from my post a while back titled "The few, the Proud..."
I seriously doubt that 5 out of 100 BJ players would be able to take advantage of expanded rules such as insurance, DAS, DOA and suurender. The five percent who could would just represent a normal "cost of doing business" while providing the elusive "golden carrot" notion for the rest of the masses.
Just the other night, this guy on 1st base stands on an A-5 with a $150 bet. Money right down the toilet! I just shook my head since I knew this guy was a sucessful and intellengent car dealer (table chit-chat), but was such an idiot at BJ.
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Power of the ploppy!
Improvement of games can possibly come when the average player begins to refuse to play under poor conditions. The trouble in places like the strip in Vegas is that the average player has no clue concerning with poor conditions just might be, and blackjack profits are going up and not down.
When a struggling casino thinks that they will increase profits by killing the game, they generally are making a mistake because the reasons they are struggling will have nothing to do with a beatable blackjack game but everything to do with not getting enough people inside their casino. We have seen this the last couple of years in downtown Vegas and profits continue to fall and I recently witnessed this at Soboba casino and see no reason why their profits will go up because there are newer, nicer places near them and better games now to the east (in nicer places also).
So, the day you walk into the MGM and see the two S-17 pits overflowing with players but no one at the H-17 pit and every 6/5 single deck table sitting empty, while all the blackjack pits at Harrah's are empty, it probably will get the attention of casino execs. The result of something this far fetched would be MGM improving their blackjack games overall and Harrah's removing all their's to make room for more slots.
ihate17
Improvement of games can possibly come when the average player begins to refuse to play under poor conditions. The trouble in places like the strip in Vegas is that the average player has no clue concerning with poor conditions just might be, and blackjack profits are going up and not down.
When a struggling casino thinks that they will increase profits by killing the game, they generally are making a mistake because the reasons they are struggling will have nothing to do with a beatable blackjack game but everything to do with not getting enough people inside their casino. We have seen this the last couple of years in downtown Vegas and profits continue to fall and I recently witnessed this at Soboba casino and see no reason why their profits will go up because there are newer, nicer places near them and better games now to the east (in nicer places also).
So, the day you walk into the MGM and see the two S-17 pits overflowing with players but no one at the H-17 pit and every 6/5 single deck table sitting empty, while all the blackjack pits at Harrah's are empty, it probably will get the attention of casino execs. The result of something this far fetched would be MGM improving their blackjack games overall and Harrah's removing all their's to make room for more slots.
ihate17
Brutus
Well-Known Member
I just had a thought about getting the attention of casino execs.
the dudes handing out those hooker cards on the strip, should be advertising decent blackjack games downtown or elsewhere.
thats what I'm talking about. (as if you didnt already know!)
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Worse and worser lol.
In 5 years there won't be an S17 in the country.
In ten years, there won't be a 3-2 BJ game.
So they'll have 5% fewer players with 95% of the players making them 4%.
I hope they keep getting worse! Muhahahaah! :devil:
moo321
Well-Known Member
Advantage gambling is better now than it has ever been. Granted, US players are mostly locked out of bonus whoring, which was the greatest advantage opportunity ever, but there's poker everywhere, new casinos everywhere, new games to beat. Just today I discovered two new things I could beat, and one of them is in Ohio, where the only legal gambling is the lottery and horses.
Sure, there's no more single deck games, but who cares. We're in a golden age. If they completely removed blackjack from casinos, we would still have it better than someone in the late 60's.
Sure, there's no more single deck games, but who cares. We're in a golden age. If they completely removed blackjack from casinos, we would still have it better than someone in the late 60's.
Brutus
Well-Known Member
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
so a csm can be beaten?
or if you mean legit shuffles are you saying no amount of the bean counters tampering with the rules and pay offs can make the game unbeatable?
i guess you mean that a dealer is going to have imperfections and that those imperfections can then be exploited.
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Sonny
Well-Known Member
Right. There are simply too many ways for a player to get an advantage from a bad dealer or cards. The rules of the game can sometimes be insignificant. If you can run fast enough, you can excel at almost any sport. Imagine being the Bo Jackson of Blackjack!
Grosjean is like that. It doesn't matter if it was blackjack, three card poker, caribbean stud poker or let it ride. The rules of the game didn't matter. He knows how to beat them all.
-Sonny-
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Brock Windsor
Well-Known Member
Double-take on idiots at BJ
You're most likely right on that guy, but things aren't always what they appear in a casino. Last time I played I hit hard 17 three or four times, waved off all kinds of stiffs with a 10 up, split some 10's, doubled 8 v 10up... The dealer was just crushing everybody, he got six 20's in a row (no surrender available unfortunately) and the count (which I keep out of habit) plunged into the negatives...Before long we went from a full table to myself being the only player except for a Chinese lady who stayed around not to play, but to curse out my terrible play to anyone who dare venture up to the table because I cost her all her money...Then one East Indian guy played one hand despite her warnings. The very next hand he gives me $100 and asks if I will bet it for him on my spot while he sits out, all the while grinning ear to ear. Though I didn't know him I agreed for just ONE hand, he lost his $100. I think 99% of BJ players/dealers and even most PC's would think I was the idiot, maybe some thought the East Indian guy was a bigger idiot for betting on me. He probably thought it was the best bet he would make all night when he placed it. I'd love to see better BJ rules, but as Sonny stated advantages will always exist without them when playing with paper cards and human dealers....and probably still exist, though for even fewer people, when paper cards and human dealers are removed from the equation.
You're most likely right on that guy, but things aren't always what they appear in a casino. Last time I played I hit hard 17 three or four times, waved off all kinds of stiffs with a 10 up, split some 10's, doubled 8 v 10up... The dealer was just crushing everybody, he got six 20's in a row (no surrender available unfortunately) and the count (which I keep out of habit) plunged into the negatives...Before long we went from a full table to myself being the only player except for a Chinese lady who stayed around not to play, but to curse out my terrible play to anyone who dare venture up to the table because I cost her all her money...Then one East Indian guy played one hand despite her warnings. The very next hand he gives me $100 and asks if I will bet it for him on my spot while he sits out, all the while grinning ear to ear. Though I didn't know him I agreed for just ONE hand, he lost his $100. I think 99% of BJ players/dealers and even most PC's would think I was the idiot, maybe some thought the East Indian guy was a bigger idiot for betting on me. He probably thought it was the best bet he would make all night when he placed it. I'd love to see better BJ rules, but as Sonny stated advantages will always exist without them when playing with paper cards and human dealers....and probably still exist, though for even fewer people, when paper cards and human dealers are removed from the equation.
There was a big study in Australia on card counters that went to the state government because the counters wanted some laws changed.
Basically they found that the number of card counters who could actually make $9 per hour or more by getting 1% player advantage was probably around 200, out of the 20 million people in Australia, and that they needed at least $12,000 bank roll. Over 5 million Australian's visited the casino with an average of once per week (obviously some people way more than others).
Based on the casino holds and the number of players, they found the average person gave the house an edge of about 4%, and that if they took away what the counters made, the edge would end up about 4.005% or less and that they possed no danger at all to casino's.
The counters wanted a number of laws changed, they failed to get any one of the laws changed because the casinos obviously are the ones paying the tax and thus the pay checks of the gambling commision so they get what they want. All of these requests failed:
-On the min/max bet sign they wanted the sign to say that skilled players may be required to bet minimum only (card counters are forced to be minimum when detected).
-They wanted the sign to give the house edge of the game saying that "Although you may win or loss any individual hand, 0.58% of each bet will contribute to your total gaming loss on average."
-They wanted it illegal to re-shuffle a shoe at will. In queensland this is still legal and I have had it happen to me. Instead of being required to bet minimum, they simply come up and re-shuffle the shoe when the count is high. They can even do this at high roller games at will, they do it to increase the house edge. By never letting high count shoes complete they can legally make the edge blow out to 15% or more. (this is why I have to wong now. Also if you ramp up on a bad count, they will shuffle it away for you! because they shuffle based on your bets, they dont actually count themselves).
-They basically wanted to make it illegal for the casino to discriminate against 'skill' players altogether. For example they tried to get it so that a casino is not allowed to simple tell one person they have to bet minimum, as that is discrimination against the skilled player, who is playing completely legally.
Everything failed and even now the laws which say how blackjack are to be played still include the ability for the house to do practically anything they want to discriminate against anyone they believe will take there money.
Some of the casinos has gone a long way out of there way to crush card counters. For example one guy lost $5,000 one day counting and came back the next day and won $4,000.... they took his chips and made the thing go to court, even though they were still $1,000 up on him. They try to wait till the counter has a negetive swing and then try and cut him off. I had no trouble when i was counting while i was continually ahead. But if i had some big loosing sessions when I came back I would always take heat.
Basically they found that the number of card counters who could actually make $9 per hour or more by getting 1% player advantage was probably around 200, out of the 20 million people in Australia, and that they needed at least $12,000 bank roll. Over 5 million Australian's visited the casino with an average of once per week (obviously some people way more than others).
Based on the casino holds and the number of players, they found the average person gave the house an edge of about 4%, and that if they took away what the counters made, the edge would end up about 4.005% or less and that they possed no danger at all to casino's.
The counters wanted a number of laws changed, they failed to get any one of the laws changed because the casinos obviously are the ones paying the tax and thus the pay checks of the gambling commision so they get what they want. All of these requests failed:
-On the min/max bet sign they wanted the sign to say that skilled players may be required to bet minimum only (card counters are forced to be minimum when detected).
-They wanted the sign to give the house edge of the game saying that "Although you may win or loss any individual hand, 0.58% of each bet will contribute to your total gaming loss on average."
-They wanted it illegal to re-shuffle a shoe at will. In queensland this is still legal and I have had it happen to me. Instead of being required to bet minimum, they simply come up and re-shuffle the shoe when the count is high. They can even do this at high roller games at will, they do it to increase the house edge. By never letting high count shoes complete they can legally make the edge blow out to 15% or more. (this is why I have to wong now. Also if you ramp up on a bad count, they will shuffle it away for you! because they shuffle based on your bets, they dont actually count themselves).
-They basically wanted to make it illegal for the casino to discriminate against 'skill' players altogether. For example they tried to get it so that a casino is not allowed to simple tell one person they have to bet minimum, as that is discrimination against the skilled player, who is playing completely legally.
Everything failed and even now the laws which say how blackjack are to be played still include the ability for the house to do practically anything they want to discriminate against anyone they believe will take there money.
Some of the casinos has gone a long way out of there way to crush card counters. For example one guy lost $5,000 one day counting and came back the next day and won $4,000.... they took his chips and made the thing go to court, even though they were still $1,000 up on him. They try to wait till the counter has a negetive swing and then try and cut him off. I had no trouble when i was counting while i was continually ahead. But if i had some big loosing sessions when I came back I would always take heat.
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
geesh casino's really are some serious advantage players ain't they
i got a sense that when some one is trying to take advantage of you that there is always a way to turn the tables. but how that is the big question.
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